[Todd Terry]

Hi Danny…

I’d say most of what Emre says about Steadicam and jib usage is right on the mark.

Using a lens converter and primes with a Steadicam is a bit of a beast in and of itself. I think a lot of it will come down to what gear you have, and how proficient a Steadicam op you happen to be.

Firstly, you are going to need to make sure you have the right gear to fly the camera… your rig is going to get quite a bit heavier once it is in “conversion” mode. How much does it weigh when all put together?… that will determine which Steadicam can fly it. It won’t be something like the Merlin, I can tell you that for sure.

Our rig is fairly heavy… we start with an XLH1 (which is probably one of the heavier HDV cameras), then add a P+S Technik Mini35 (which I think is the heaviest lens converter), and for Steadicam work my prime of choice is usually my 18mm… which unfortunately is also one of my heaviest lenses (it’s a gigantic beast compared to say my 35mm or my 50mm). Add some extras like radio mic receivers (when needed) and it all gets pretty heavy. I usually take the matte box off just to save weight.

We usually fly with the SteadicamSK. That’s no longer a current model… but I’d say it is about mid range of the “full-size” Steadicam rigs in its capabilities and weight requirements. I don’t remember the specs exactly, but I think it will fly cameras up to about 25lb… and I would say that our present camera configuration fits fairly comfortably within those tolerances but I wouldn’t want to go a lot heavier either. We didn’t buy this rig specifically for this camera, it’s the one we were already using for 35mm film shooting… but fortunately the camera weights are similar enough that we can swap them easily without much trouble. We usually power our camera with full-size Anton-Bauer bricks, but at least we can use the Steadicam’s power tap to juice both the camera and the Mini35 converter… that way we can take the big heavy brick off the back of the camera and save some weight (and my aging back).

I’d say your best bet would be to wait until you actually get your camera until you start worrying about this. IF you then decide to go the DoF conversion route, THEN figure out what kind of converter you want, AND what kind of lens(es), and get comfortable with the whole thing. Once you are, if you still want to do Steadi work, weigh the whole thing and see how big of a rig you need… or the smallest one that you can get away with.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

Hi Danny…

I’m breaking the thread and responding to Danny’s post instead of Jason’s so I can pull the questions…

I’m always happy to yammer on about DoF converters (probably too much for some people’s taste) as I use mine almost every day, and have for about two years now…

[Danny Grizzle] “The question is this — once you start with 35mm lenses, can you ever stop?”

Ha… sure. It just depends on the project that you are doing and what the needs are. If I want a filmic look, I always use them. If that’s not the look I’m going for, I don’t.

[Danny Grizzle] “How does footage shot with the adapter intercut with footage shot without?”

Not particularly well. It is a very different look than you will get from your video zoom. Sometimes you might be able to get away with it, but in most instances I would avoid it.

[Danny Grizzle] “I’m thinking, “How can this thing work on a Steadicam?” On a Microdolly jib?”

You have to think about it this way… what you are basically trying to do is get a 35mm film look out of your little video camera. Can you shoot 35mm film with a jib? With a Steadicam? Of course, people do it every day. I’ve used our P+S Technik converter on a jib a thousand times. I haven’t used it on our Steadicam nearly as much, but just because I dont do all that much Steadicam shooting. The same rules that apply to a 35mm film camera apply to using a video camera with a lens converter… such as, with Steadicam you will want to stick to medium or wider lenses.

[Danny Grizzle] “does this technique completely take over your style?”

It probably depends on what your style is, or was. In my particular istance, it didn’t make that much difference. We used to shoot both a fair bit of video and a good bit of 35mm film as well. Now I’m still shooting some straight “video” projects, but for others instead of shooting real film I’m now shooting HDV with a lens converter. My styles for the two different things have remained about the same… except now I’m shooting more “filmic” projects since that look now no longer costs me (or rather, my clients) a couple of dollars a second just to pull trigger on the camera.

I don’t know what your past experience is, that will weigh in on how readily you adapt to lens-converted work. If you have a reasonable amount of past experience shooting film…. beginning to use 35mm lenses and a converter will be absolutely no sweat, you will find it super easy. It’s pretty much the same as a film shoot except you are no longer stopping to load mags every few minutes. If you have never shot film before, it is going to be just a bit more challenging. Firstly, you are going to have to think about composition, camera moves, blocking, all of that good stuff… in a more filmic way that you are used to with video. Secondly, you might have to get used to changing lenes a lot (especially if just just shoot with primes, which is what I mostly do). And above all of that, you will really have to start thinking about focus…a lot. When shooting straight video, you really don’t have to worry your brain to death about focus, becuase it is so deep. Tracking focus on a moving subject, for example, is easy as pie… a kid can do it. When you move to 35mm type shooting though, it’s a whole different ballgame… focus becomes SUPER critical, and can frankly be very difficult. Even if you are shooting a still subject (say a head and shoulders shot), you may find that the DoF is as shallow as an inch or two. That can be a great look, but it is challenging. Their eyeballs may be in focus, but the tip of the nose and the ears are soft. If they (or you) move just a little, you are going to have to follow focus with them. It does take a LOT of practice. That is why I recommend 1) a good follow focus unit, and 2) the use of cine lenese rather than SLR lenses which some people use (the reason is that SLR lenses only turn a maddening tiny bit to go through their entire focus range, whereas with cine lenses you have to make almost a complete barrel turn).

A good follow focus unit is essential, too (I wish I had a better one, actually). You can find a lot of them in the sub-$1K range… but frankly most of them are not very good. A cinematographer buddy of mine calls them “Fisher-Price Follow Focus” units. Most of these inexpensive units just have too much “slop” in the gearboxes. Some say “minimal backlash” or “backlash of only one degree,” but the thing is any backlash or slop in them is too much when doing critical focus work. Probably an Arri or Chroisel FF unit should be in my future… but I haven’t been able to convice myself to part with the $2000-$3000 to get one yet.

Also keep in mind that this whole process can be a bit on the expensive side and can get away from you if you are not careful. We didnt’ really set out to do so, but we ended up spending a great deal of money to get our rig exactly like we want. We spent a great deal more on lenses than we did on the lens converter, and we spent a good bit more on the converter than we did for the camera itself (which is an XLH1, not a real cheap one to start with). We justified this as we were basically replacing our 35mm film shooting, and managed to get the system to pay for itself very quickly. However if I was just an occassional shooter or trying to do a cheap indie I probably couldn’t have justified the expense.

I will say though that just like almost any equipment in our business, you DO get what you pay for. The P+S Technik converter may be ten times the price of a Letus or a Brevis converter, but in my prejudiced opinion it is definitely worth the cost. The same for lenses… your image is never going to be better than your worst piece of glass, so that is not the place to skimp. If someone can’t justify the cost of investing in a great set of cine primes, I will usually advise them to use SLR lenses as best then can for day-to-day stuff, and then when really critical project crops up they can rent a good set of PL mount cine primes for the specific gig. If you live in a decent-sized or larger city there is probably a cinema equipment rental house… and you can get a set of superspeed primes for something in the $300-$400 range.

I have probably droned on too much…. if you wanna hear more, dig out last summer’s issue of Creative COW magazine or find the PDF file in the COW archives. I wrote a farily long (i.e., boring) article about our day-to-day usage of our XLH1 with a converter and film lenses that you can find there.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

[titohawaii] “would you still have this problem if you were going to come out of the XL-H1 into a flash XDR?”

I don’t think so… that should work fine (in fact, I’m counting on it), unless there is something that I have overlooked.

[titohawaii] “could you then grab the audio off the DV tape or would the 24f curse remain?”

Ummmm… why would you want to do it that way? Is there a reason not to simply record your audio into the Flash XDR along with the video (you might have a reason not to do so, but I can’t imagine what it is)? The XDR will accept audio in, in either mic or line levels… and even provide 48v phantom power to the microphones, if your mics require it (some of mine do). I think you could probably loop audio out of the XDR into the camera if you are doing a simultanious redundant recording onto tape for a safety backup.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

Cool, Jason…

For best flexibility, get a tripod and jib that have the same bowl size. I.e, if your jib has a 100mm bowl (or 120mm, or whatever), look for a tripd with a 100mm bowl. That way swapping the jib in and out is easy breezy… take the head off the sticks, mount the jib, put the same head on the jib. Some jibs come with the option of different bowl sizes (or interchangable bowls) so you can order it with the size that you need to match your tripod and head.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

There might be tripods out there under the $1K mark that would work, but none immediately come to mind.

I personally would hit eBay… you can find surprisingly good tripod bargains there.

We have three Oconnor sticks/heads sets… one particular set cost as much as my first car… the other IDENTICAL set we snagged on eBay in unbelievable like-new condition for $800 (although I will admit that was a super steal). I’ve seen comparable bargains for tripods there, though… and there are usually quite a few good spider dollys up for auction as well.

I personally would only buy a tripod that could pull double duty… use for jib mounting and for reagular fluid head mounting. Look for something with a 100mm bowl or larger. I don’t think I’d consider sticks that would mount the jib only. But hey, that seems to work for Danny and I will not argue one bit with something that works well for someone.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

[Jason Jenkins] “Do you guys usually control the jib from the back”

I almost ALWAYS control it from the front. I will control it from the back if it is extra tongued-out and on high sticks (thus, 10-12 feet in the air) and I am not doing any panning/tilting of the camera head.

I have also been known to operate it from a midpoint.

Things might change if I had a remote head… which I don’t. I don’t like the “joysticky” controls of the heads that are out there now. However a buddy of mine and I are planning to develop a hydraulic remote head that should be very intuitive. Unfortunately it is third in line behind two other camera support projects we are working on… but I hope to have it sometime in ’08.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

[Danny Grizzle] “Except maybe I am a little more old school on having an assistant.”

Oh… I’m as old school as they come (some would say just plain old). But sometimes in some situations, one does what one has to. At least once in my more foolish and youthful days I’ve been on a shoot where I was not only the director, but the DP, camera op, dolly grip, crane grip, focus puller, gaffer, and mag loader all at the same time. NOT recommended! Thank god it was MOS or I would have probably been running sound, too. I love a full crew… well, as long as it is the right crew.

And yep, you’re right… audio is often a sadly neglected stepchild to many video guys. We are not always as good about that as we should be… but we try. For example, I used to wire a lot of talent and we do have some really sweet Lectrosonic radio mics… but the last couple of years we have almost exclusively boom mic’d whenever possible. We usually use a Sennheiser MKH416… and even though it requires dedicating a crew member as boom op it just sounds soooo good that it is worth it… it captures voices beautifully with a nice open sound, not nearly as sterile and clinical as worn mics.

Oops, sorry we’re off track here…

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

This has been discussed a good bit here…

It depends on the combination of your settings.

IF you shoot in HDV mode AND you shoot 60i, most HDV decks will play the tape fine.

IF you shoot in SD mode AND shoot 60i, most decks will play the tape fine.

IF you shoot in SD mode AND shoot 30f, most decks will play the tape fine.

IF you shoot in SD mode AND shoot 24f, most decks will play the tape fine.

BUT….

IF you shoot in HDV mode AND shoot 24f, unfortunately you must use the camera as a source deck for capture.

No other manufacturer makes a deck that will play back Canon HDV 24f… and unfortunately Canon just makes cameras, not decks.

This is why some people who shoot with the XHA1 or the XLH1 (which I what I use) buy one of the little cheapo HV20 cameras to use as a source deck. Sadly the HV20 does not have HD-SDI out, but it does have HDMI out.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

I heartily agree with almost everything Danny says, with one tiny exception….

[Danny Grizzle] “Rigging any jib with a one person crew would be challenging, or impossible.”

Here’s the only point I respectfully disagree with. I was a one-man band for quite a few years before my little company had a growth spurt. I’ve probably set my Porta-Jib up all by my lonesome probably a few thousand times…. even at full length and with a heavy-as-a-boat-anchor 35mm camera it probaby never took me more than four or five minutes once I had my “system” down pat. I just don’t want any wanna-be jibbers to think they have to have a full crew to take advantage of them.

[Danny Grizzle] “The Microdolly tripod does not have a bowl.”

The Porta-Jib doesn’t either… it sits flat on top of the bowl. Fortuantely there are lots of bubble levels on the thing, but yes it’s best to start with sticks that are level before mounting the jib.

[Danny Grizzle] “have to add that the O’Connor sticks alone can weigh more than my entire Microdolly package.”

I don’t doubt that a bit… I think Micrdolly’s biggest advantage is its weight (or lack thereof). My jib weighs three times as much as the Microdolly jib, so we need the heavy sticks. Unfortunately I don’t travel as lean and mean as I did in my youth. But I’ve found if just as you start to unload gear you pretend to have to take a phone call, the minions will unload for you (totally just kidding… well, almost).

[Danny Grizzle] “With jibs, we think mostly about lift and drop. But I will tell you that arm swing has equal creative potential.”

Absolutely completely agree. I use my jib for tongue moves probably as much if not more than I do for crane moves. It can easily simulate a short (although slightly arcing) dolly shot… which is super helpful if you have to move over objects or if you are in a space too confined to lay track, etc.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

[Danny Grizzle] “I’ve always blown off the idea of 35mm converters. The whole principle of operation just sounds crazy. But seeing is believing!”

Oh, they work (at least the good ones do) and work well. I have used the P+S Technik Mini35 almost every day for pushing two years now, and must say it is quite the miracle tool.

I used to shoot thousands of feet of 35mm every year, but since I have started using the lens converter I have literally not even cracked open the cases on our film cameras. I should sell them, but sentiment keeps me hanging on to them. I had one semi-big-shot director come in from Dallas for a shoot… he had originally planned for us to shoot 35mm but he reluctantly agreed to try shooting HD with the lens converter. He was blown away by the result (and no changing mags every four minutes!).

They work indeed… although I would recommend buying (or renting) the highest-end one that you can afford… and the very best primes (superspeeds highly recommended) that you can get your hands on.

Most of these converter demos really concentrate on “beauty shots”… but here’s a link to a commercial campaign with more “typical” day-to-day footage. I’m not saying they are the greatest spots in the world (was very low budget and produced very quickly) but it does demonstrate the filmic DoFs. And yes, the acting was supposed to be that bad.

https://www.fantasticplastic.com/media/RFCU-1.mpg

https://www.fantasticplastic.com/media/RFCU-2.mpg

https://www.fantasticplastic.com/media/RFCU-3.mpg

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com