Todd Terry
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COW Coin
Forum Replies Created
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Hi Ed…
I don’t have any specific recommendations, but I would say that when you DO get some ideas and start shopping look very closely at the technical specs.
There are a lot of small monitors out there that sport the “HD” badge… but when you look at their specs they are actually nowhere near HD. Most of them are actually only 480 lines or so. They can input an HD signal, but they are not displaying an HD picture. Not very useful if you wish to use them for critical focusing when shooting HD, etc.
If you are actually looking for a monitor that can display HD… I am not aware of any in the 7″ range unless you get up into real money (like the little Astro montitors, which I believe start somewhere in the $5K range).
Sanyo made noise last year about developing a 7″ 1080 line display… it was more of a consumer product intended for headrest displays, etc., so I expect its price to be more in line if it ever hits the market. Unfortunately, it is not here yet though.
Sorry to not give any actual suggestions, but I did want to encourage you to look at the line specs… I know several people who bought small TTF screens thinking they were getting HD, only to be very disappointed… maybe others in here can chime in with some actual suggestions…
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[zhuang mu] “P.S.: Anyone heard of SGPro, also a lens adapter, from UK, one user claimed it is better than all the rest, even P+S.”
I’ve heard of it, never used it. All I know is that it is extremely inexpensive… I believe along the lines of the Brevis or Letus, maybe even less. I’m not discounting it (and would be interested in trying one, if one were available), but I’ll go back to saying that with these gadgets you generally get what you pay for. Maybe it is the exception to the rule.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[Andrew Moore] “The funny thing in this case is that I shot at 30fps, 1080i and no deck or camera can read the tapes.”
I believe that I left that particular combination out of the mix that I listed.
I think that Canon’s 30f is going to behave pretty much like it’s 24f (although I never use 30f, so I’m not 100% sure). I believe if you shoot HDV and 30f, you will also have to use a Canon camera as a source deck…. no other decks will play it (same as 24f mode).
As for tape, we use Sony DVM-63HD tapes. I can’t exactly say they work best, because honestly I’v never really compared any others. They are just what we always use, and haven’t had any issues with them.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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I’m afraid I still don’t follow what the problem (er, rather perceived problem) is… but considering:
[Aaron zander] “It’s not really noticeable to the naked eye… and no one will ever see it”
In that case, I’ll consider it an interesting albeit moot point. Invisible problems are the ones that I like (I have too many of the real ones in other avenues of life)!
That might be something more prevelant on the lower end adapters. I’ve had people stand jaw agape when learning what we shelled out for our P+S Tech and primes (especially to stick on only a $9K camera), but you get what you pay for and it has been one of our best investments ever.
Happy new year, everyone!
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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Sorry Aaron… I guess I’m thick, but I’m waaaay confused about what you mean…
I know that there are no focusing errors on my lenses. They were very precisely housed and mounted by Panavision and after that they were collimated by one of the very best lens guys in the business (Paul Duclos). The lenses are focusing exactly on the groundglass at the precise point they should. And the groundglass of course does not breathe like film does (and I’ve shot a few zillion feet of film, so I know that when I see it).
I have complete confidence in the mount on the P+S Technik converter. It is built with incredible precision and tolerances… probably as much or moreso than the majority of the 35mm film cameras that I have used (and definitely as good as the one that I own). I’m completely sure that if I were to start questioning the focal plane on my rig I would be looking for a problem that isn’t there.
The backfocus adjustment on the Mini35 is not a traditional backfocus… they probably actually have misnamed the adjustment a bit. It has nothing to do with the focus or backfocus of the cine lens itself. It is actually used to minutely tweak the adjustment between the camera body and the small relay lens on the converter… not the cine lens itself.
Or maybe I’m just confused on what issues you are talking about.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[aaron zander] “Yes they add amazing DoF, but they DO add a lot of grain.”
Do you know which DoF adapter was being used? I’m sure it has happened many times, but personally I have never gotten any noticable grain if the speed on the converter was set correctly.
[aaron zander] “the lens on the camera isn’t putting the image at the exact point it was manufactured to put it.”
Ummm… not sure what you mean there. In my particular setup the image is most definitely being put at the exact point that the cine lens was manufactured for.
[aaron zander] “the more objects light passes through the darker the light. And with the lower end, like the red rocks etc (less so on the psT) it’s pretty severe.”
VERY true… all DoF converters are light-hungry to a degree. The ones that correctly re-orient the images even moresore, as there is a prism block that rights the image. My P+S Technik Mini35 eats up about 1 stop. This is why I highly recommend superspeed lenses whenever possible. I will only use my basic primes indoors (all T1.3), although I have some longer lenses (T2.0) and a zoom (T3.0) that I will use for exteriors, and they are fine for that use. Interiors though… no, I stick with the superspeeds.
The trick to getting grainless images is to make SURE you are monitoring on a good full-resolution monitor so you can tweak the speed to make sure it is absolutely perfect. There will be different optimal groundglass speeds for different shutter speeds and iris conditions. And DON’T stop down too much… more than about 3 stops down from wide open and you will show the groundglass grain no matter what you do… the P+S Technik has a separate rear iris that you use to stop down, with other units you need to be prepared to throw ND filters in the matte box, so make sure you have at least a .3, .6, and .9 handy at minimum. And for goodness sake resist the urge to ever crank the gain up on the camera.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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Emre… I’d best not even try one of the HD ultra bright monitors or I would probably feel I had to have one… and at just a few Steadi gigs a year I can’t warrant it at all. As I get older my back keeps talking me out of Steadicam work. I should probably sell the SK, but I keep it around for occasional fun.
Frank…now there’s a name I haven’t mentioned in quite a while. You mean Frank “I’ll be your new best friend as long as you can help me but let’s not try that the other way around” Rush? Haaaa.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[zhuang mu] “Was thinking of using my Leica lens”
If you can make that happen, I think you will be happy.
I have a nice set of superspeed primes, and three of them (35mm, 50mm, 80mm) actually started life as Leitz (Leica) still camera lenses. They were rehoused by Panavision so now they have proper cine housings, gear rings, PL mounts, and all that jazz… but the heart of them is still that great Leica glass.
It’s possible that you could have your lenses rehoused. That might be fairly pricey if even doable… it however is probably far within reason that they could be remounted… I would vote for PL mounts since they are one of the “cine standards.” Those come with a price too, though… Redrock for example offers a PL mount… but they kinda hide it and I believe it is pushing $500… whereas their other mounts are in the sub-$100 range.
At any rate, the Leica lenses can be great.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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It shouldn’t have a degrading effect. If any, I would say it is more than offset by the improved DoF control that you have when using a converter, as well as the use of primes which can be (depending on which ones you use) much much better than the stock video zoom that comes on your camera.
I have never found increased grain to be a factor. I would say that with the higher-end units, grain is pretty much invisible. The better units have an osscilating groundglass rather than a spinning one so you don’t get the “grain swirls” that were prevelant in the old days. Better units also have infinitely adjustible osscilating speeds so that if you happen to choose a shutter speed which reveals the grain (they just happen to sync up unpleasantly) you can adjust the groundglass speed so that the grain disappears. I believe some of the older and/or cheaper units just have a single speed, or maybe two speeds. Even the P+S Technik unit only had two speeds on the older models, but now they are continuously variable.
As far as the higher-end units go, I can only speak for the P+S Technik Mini35, which is the one I use daily shooting. It is simply one of the best designed and best built pieces of cinema gear we have ever used. The design, fit, finish, and operability is all just flawless. It works perfectly, is ruggedly built, and is truly a high-end professional tool… even though they all work on basically the same principal I can’t say that about all others, especially some of the very lower end units seem to fall into the kinda “homemade” category. The only, and I do mean only downside I have found to the Mini35 is the pricetag. Depending on what you use to shoot with they can easily be much much more expensive than the camera itself. But you get what you pay for and they are definitely worth it… I have never regretted it for a second and it has been one of the best investments we have ever made.
Lower end units also record an “upside down” image that you have to flip in post… which can also pose a challenge when shooting. People have found all sorts of solutions to this on location, from mounting the camera upside down, to putting magnets on LCD screens to flip the picture, to turning monitors upside down. Those all work, but just aren’t very elegant solutions in my opinion.
Some of the less expensive units (Letus) and those a click or two higher (Redrock) now do offer “flip modules” that re-orient the picture correctly. I believe (although I could be wrong) the only two units that natively record a correctly-oriented picture without any add-ons are the P+S Technik and Movietube. Movietube looks like a pretty neat product, but it is somewhat limited on the cameras that can be used with it.
If your camera has a removable lens, the higher-end units can be connected directly to the DoF converter without using the native camera lens at all. I think this is a better optic path… and it certainly is a better mechanical path… with one of the cheaper units by the time you have your camera body PLUS the original lens PLUS the DoF converter PLUS the cine lens you can literally have a rig that is more than three feet long. That is not an exaggeration, it can happen. Pretty unweildy.
Higher-end units usually have a fairly easy-to-use backfocus adjustment. With the P+S Technik, for example, there is a simple ring you turn. With some of the “bottom end” units, there is no provision, or you have to use shims. I think the Redrock has some provisions, but I know of one guy who has been struggling with getting his backfocus correct for a while now.
My suggestion is always that if you are a full-time daily shooting cinematographer with fairly high-end projects and paying clients… that the P+S Technik Mini35 is the way to go, hands down. If you are just an occasional shooter, then you might get one of the cheap units and experiement with SLR lenses. But keep this in mind, you will find tons of the cheap units for sale on the used market, and they are there for a reason. As my friend’s father says, “No one ever sold a car because it ran too well.” I think there is a lot of truth to that. For someone who shoots somewhat regularly, or has an indie feature that they are trying to shoot without much of a budget, then something in the middle like the Redrock unit might fit the bill perfectly.
Keep in mind that there is an available (although somewhat limited) rental market for DoF converters… especially the Mini35. A rental house in your area might have one that you can test drive before jumping into the pool.
Also, I have to go back to the original question, as to whether they would have a negative effect on a film-out. IF you are planning to strike a real film print of a feature-length project, that’s big money… probably somewhere in the $30-40,0000 neighborhood for the print. If you plan on spending that kind of money, I’d make sure I had a high-end converter….I sure wouldn’t try to cut corners on the second link in the image chain (and certainly not on the first link either, which would be the lenses).
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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Those specs seem ’bout right. I think I’ve actually had a bit more than 21 pounds on our SK when shooting 35mm in the past… of course the arm tension was cranked to the max, but it flew ok.
The little Flyer would probably work find for most people with a smaller HDV camera, lens converter, etc. Our camera rig is substantially too heavy for the Flyer though, so we stick with the older SK (since the next bigger Steadicam model is getting up seriously into the “real money” territory).
eBay can be an occasional source, but “real” Steadicams are fairly few and far between there. You’ll mostly find the clonecams and wannabecams there, or homemade stabilizers for little DV cameras. Some of the Steadicam users groups might be a better source for finding someone who is trading up to a bigger/newer rig and has a used one for sale.
The real Steadicams hold their value pretty well, but now and then bargains crop up. I believe our unit listed for around $16K back when it was new. We bought it used about 7 years ago when trading up from a SteadicamMini and paid considerably less than that for it. My weird brush-with-fame story: the buyer for our Mini was George Lucas. I dunno what the heck he wanted with it because it was really little more than a toy, but new units were out of stock and he was in a big hurry and bought ours… I still have the fax from him with instructions on how to pack it and ship it to Skywalker. Odd.
Actually, one shouldn’t be afraid of the older units, if you can find one. They are built like tanks and almost always still work like new. I also don’t mind one bit the older-style “aircraft display” greenscreen monitors. I actually perfer them to the color TTFs. You can just see them so easily, even in bright direct sunlight. And some of us old-timers just think the greenscreen is the way a real Steadicam is “supposed” to look. Resistant to change, I suppose.
Of course, I dream of an Ultra someday. At least my brain does. My back, not so much.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com