[Steve Renard]

Hi Raphael,

I’m not familiar with Virtual Earth, but I am assuming you’re getting 2D images from that and then using a 3D depth map to give the mountains shape. If that is the case then I would recommmend bringing the still image into Photoshop and painting the snow onto the scene. That’s probably the quickest and most straightforward way of doing what you want, assuming you are extruding a 2D image with a bump map in a 3D program.

If you are not doing the 2D/extrusion thing, and Virtual Earth is providing you with the rendered 3D scene and camera moves, your best bet is probably to do a series of tracked still matte paintings to put the snow onto the scene. Check out the “3D Set Extensions” tutorial on videocopilot.net for an excellent tutorial on how to do a simple matte painting. Your problem is a little more complex than what he does there, because it involves multiple camera moves, but you should be able to extrapolate what he’s doing to your situation.

Good luck with your project,
Steve

[Steve Renard]

Phil – will your budget allow for a motion-control rig? Do you have time to do all the pre-viz that these guys are talking about? Myself, I do not often have the luxury of either budget or time for my projects, so I always look at something like this and say, “Well, if that’s how they did it when they had four months to pre-viz and all that, how can I do something like that in a 2-month (or sometimes 2-week) production schedule? What can I do differently or where can I go differently to make something similarly cool?”

Usually my answer involves using simple tools to create similar effects that may or may not come out looking a lot like the original. In this case, I’d start by take a shot or two that I already have, and try out doing some motion tracking to properly orient the cardboard to the shot, then putting an AE comp together just with some flat layers that I can animate in the same way I would animate the carboard in the final product. If you can make that work, then no, you don’t need a motion-control rig – go shoot your backgrounds, then shoot your cardboard (stop-motion if you must, but I would just shoot the cardboard pieces as a collection of individual elements and animate those within AE) and away you go.

This is obviously the “quick and dirty” way to go about it, but should give you some pretty good results…

Good luck with your project,
Steve

[Steve Renard]

Do you have motion blur turned on? Is there a camera move involved? What does your background look like? Any of these things could make the logo look soft. Also, do you have any subtle effects on it that might not show up so much when its moving, but become clearer when it’s still?

Cheers,
Steve

[Steve Renard]

Congrats Kevin! Sounds like you found a great solution to your problem. I will have to give it a shot next time I’m in the same position.

Steve

[Steve Renard]

First of all, if you have autosave turned on, then yes, there is an autosave feature in AE. If you don’t have it on, go turn it on now. Also, before you try anything I might suggest, duplicate your comp and make the changes in the duplicated one. You can always go back to the old one that way.

Further to the problem, then, I’ll toss out a couple other ideas that could, perhaps, create the issue you describe…
1. perhaps you’ve pre-comped the AI layer at some point and you’re actually looking at the pre-comp in your master comp? If the AI layer did not go all the way to the end of the pre-comp, that would create the problem you describe.
2. Perhaps there’s an effect that’s not happy with the number of layers, or if you’ve got the Continuously Rasterize/Collapse Transformations switch turned on for your AI layer, or something like that. Try turning off all the FX for that layer…?
3. It sounds like the addition of the Photoshop layer was the start of all of this. Is there anything in that Photoshop file – a weird alpha channel or something? – that could cause something underneath it to disappear, even if it didn’t look like it was covering something up?

I’ll keep thinking on this, and let you know if I come up with anything else. If you get a moment, post a screen shot of what you’re looking at before the layer disappears, a another of after, and I can see if I can spot anything that might be the trouble.

Good luck!
Steve

[Steve Renard]

Cynthia – it sounds like the layer disappears for the remainder of the comp, not just one frame like Dave is referring to – is that right?

If so, it sounds like there is a 3D conflict going on, more than likely. Does your AI file have the 3D switch turned on? If so, the layer order in the timeline won’t matter to AE – just the 3D position.

Check the 3D position and see if something else is coming in or moving to a 3D position at the same time that might be causing your problem.

Good luck!
Steve

[Steve Renard]

Hi Kevin,

I think I understand the trouble you’re running into, but my apologies if my answer doesn’t help your situation. I think there are two issues you’re running into:
1. You need to make sure you understand what the Continuously Rasterize/Collapse Transformations switch does – it will Continuously Rasterize your Illustrator file, but it can wreak havoc on 3D space if you’re not careful with it. For a quick tutorial, see the very bottom of this message.
2. It sounds like whatever effect you’re using for the stroke is not recognizing the 3D space you’re setting up, and so it’s getting throw off. There are a lot of effects like this that won’t turn into 3D elements if they’re not pre-comped first. I’m not sure if you’re trying to use the stroke to reveal the Illustrator image, or if you’re drawing something new onto the AI image with the stroke effect, but it doesn’t really matter – either way you’re going to have to take an extra step to make sure the stroke is rendered onto the Illustrator image in a 2D comp before putting it into a 3D space.

So, here’s how I would do it, and I hope this helps. This does involve working around the fact that the Continuously Rasterize switch is ALSO the Collapse Transformations switch, but it should get the job done:
1. Plunk that AI file into a new comp all on it’s own and call it “AI Comp”. Make the comp big enough that it won’t break down as you zoom in on it – say… 2000×2000 or so (more if you’re working in HD).
2. Turn on the CR/CT switch for the illustrator layer and scale it so the whole image fits within the boundaries of the comp. DO NOT make this layer a 3D layer.
3. Apply your stroke effect.
4. Make a new comp the same size as AI Comp and call it “Collapse Comp.”
5. Drag AI Comp into Collapse Comp and leave it alone.
6. Make another comp called “Master Comp” at your render resolution – 720×486 or whatever it is.
7. Drag Collapse Comp into Master Comp, and set the 3D switch on Collapse Comp to ON. DO NOT turn on the CR/CT switch

You should now have a 3D layer that you can manipulate, and is large enough that you can get pretty close to it without it breaking down. However, you still can’t get right up next to it or it will pixelate – this is either a failing of my knowledge, or of the program. Personally, I think the CR/CT switch should be two different switches, to avoid this problem, but there you go.

As I say I hope this helps, and good luck with your project. A short tutorial on how to understand the CR/CT switch follows.

1. Obviously you know that turning on the CR/CT switch will Continuously Rasterize a vector file placed into a comp as a layer. However, it will also do some crazy stuff with effects and also with 3D space.
2. Start with a new comp, 720×486, called Comp 1. Make a new solid layer called Layer 1, that is a light gray color. Turn the 3D switch on for Layer 1, and rotate it to the right on the Y axis, then pull it forward on the Z axis. (use the handles on the solid itself, not the settings in the timeline)
3. Duplicate Layer 1 to create Layer 2. Change the color of Layer 2 to a slightly darker gray, then move it a bit further forward on the Z axis, so it’s a little apart from Layer 1.
4. Repeat step 3 to create Layer 3, and move it a bit away from the other two layers.
5. Make another new comp, called Comp 2. Drag Comp 1 into Comp 2.
6. In Comp 2, create a new camera.
7. In Comp 2, on the Comp 1 layer, turn on the CR/CT switch and the 3D switch. Use the camera tools to move around the resulting 3D array, then turn off the CR/CT switch and see how things look different.

Again, good luck and I hope this is helpful!

Steve

[Steve Renard]

Let me make sure I understand what you’re saying:
You’ve set up a comp with a camera move, where you have one layer with Form applied, and at least one other layer with video playing back, where you’re moving the camera in toward a particle and a video layer. In your comp it looks right, but when rendering it appears as though the layer order has been messed with, causing something not to look right – perhaps z-fighting or a layer disappearing altogether. Is that right?

If so, check your render settings to see if there’s something going on in there. If you’re rendering to an interlaced format, try rendering with “Field Render” set to different settings. Or that “Effects” is set to Current Settings. It could be any number of things, really. It could also be any number of things within the comp itself, but those are hard to guess at without some more detail.

If you could post a screenshot of what it looks like in AE, and then what the render looks like, that might help diagnose the problem better.

Cheers,
Steve

[Steve Renard]

Can you give more details? Post a screenshot?

First place to check is make sure your Comp view settings aren’t throwing it off – put it to 100% and Full to make sure you’re seeing exactly what you think you’re seeing. If that doesn’t do it, check if the comp viewer is correcting for the aspect ratio of the footage – that will often cause artifacting and bad edges, particularly in text.

If you can post a screenshot or give more details of exactly what you’re seeing, that might narrow it down a bit…

[Steve Renard]

You can use a series of null objects to link tracking points that go in and out of frame. Though simple, it would take a lot of words to explain, so my best advice is to go to videocopilot.net and watch the tutorial on 3D Set Extensions – he does a great job of covering this topic exactly, within that tutorial.