Simon Ubsdell
6
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
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[Robin S. Kurz] “[Herb Sevush] “Bill Davis has repeatedly said that it takes months to truly master FCPX in all of it’s depth and that it is especially hard for experienced editors who have to first “unlearn” so many of their old habits.”
Right. Because the one opinion that suits your argument is the only possible valid one and the measure for all others after that. Got it.
“I know Bill is way too modest to blow his own trumpet, but for anyone, like Robin, unfamiliar with the notion that Bill Davis is a recognised authority on FCP X, you might want to have a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WBVnt4eBdI
And this:
In the latter, Bill Davis trades FCP X tips with other world-leaders in the FCPX field including Mike Matzdorff, Sam Mestman, Steve Martin and Mark Spencer.
Simon Ubsdell
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[Dennis Radeke] “Sorry guys, we don’t (and I can’t) comment on what we are working on. Any inferences you might make are entirely your own.
Thanks,
Dennis – Suddenly corporate Adobe sounding guy! ;-)”There you go! I’m pretty sure that’s Radeke-speak for “Watch this space, and prepare to have your mind blown”!
😉
Simon Ubsdell
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[Steve Connor] “could they (or should they) implement magnetic timeline features in a tracked timeline?”
Or could they actually even leapfrog Apple and come up with an even more interesting approach to the timeline?
Given the mind-boggling R&D creativity and talent at Adobe, I wouldn’t put it past them!
Dennis?
🙂
Simon Ubsdell
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[Andy Neil] “Wow, you must really have something against this editor. He went from inexperienced in film, to novice, to assistant editor as your replies have continued.”
I really have nothing at all against him and wish him all the best as I do all the editing community – it’s tough enough earning a liviing as it is without having other editors sniping at you,
But since you wanted to labour the point, I went back and looked at his credits again.
His full credits on imdb (and yes, it’s not an ultimately definitive resource but it’s the best one going) are as follows:
10 credits for “digital mastering” on Maron in 2013.
And three credits as “editor: syndication version” on Curb your Enthusiasm in 2009. I checked the actual Film Editor on those three episodes of Curb and two were edited by Roger Nygard and one by Steve Rasch. I don’t know enough about American TV to know what his credit actually means.
That’s it. That’s the full story according to imdb. Apart from Focus and the upcoming Fun House from the same directors.
Of course, he’s doubtless done a vast amount of editing that’s not going to feature on imdb, but then most editing doesn’t qualify for listing there. However editing experience relevant to your feature film cutting credentials does tend to get listed, unless you’re just very shy and/or want to distance yourself from the projects you’ve been associated with.
Surely you can see that this is quite unusual?
If your agent put you up for editing Focus 2, there would be a lot of hard-headed decision makers at Warners wanting to look at your publicly-listed lead editing credits, and in the normal course of events, unless they included clear evidence you had worked at feature film level or at least the equivalent in TV, it would be extremely unlikely that you’d get the job.
That’s all I’ve been trying to say.
Jan’s appointment as editor of Focus is very unusual given his publicly available track record.
Are you not able to agree on that?
And this is absolutely not a comment on his abilities as a lead editor which could be outstanding – we simply have no way of knowing anything at all about that until Focus comes out, and doubtless not even then, given how hands-on the directors will have been.
But to reiterate I absolutely wish him all the best and congratulate him on delivering this landmark project. Now that is genuinely something to impressed with.
Simon Ubsdell
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[Steve Connor] “Perhaps they’ll call you next time Simon”
They darn well better 😉
Simon Ubsdell
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[Steve Connor] “No, clearly that’s not what he’s saying! He’s saying that Jan could be a great Editor WITHOUT the IMDB Credits”
No, sorry, I don’t get that either.
I don’t see how can you be a great feature film editor without a reasonable amount of experience as a lead editor on drama even if it’s only TV … which is clearly not the case here.
Sure, there’s an element of natural talent to being a great editor, but experience is a massive factor that can’t simply be discounted.
Anyone who’s ever cut drama will know that you keep learning and you keep getting better – the more edits you make the better editor you become. It really is as simple as that. I’ve never seen anyone who can cut immaculately without first having the experience, although I’ve seen a lot of beginners who were very impressive out of the gate – there are always gaping holes where their experience lets them down. Talented experienced editors just are better than talented novices and there’s no getting around it.
Simon Ubsdell
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[tony west] “Everybody has to have a first feature film. Why can’t this be this guy’s?”
Agreed. But do check out his credits on imdb closely. This is a truly extraordinary leg-up.
And not just to cutting a small indie movie.
It’s a huge Will Smith movie with a big budget.
Something is definitely very unusual here.
I’ve got more feature film experience than he has and I can also use FCP X more than proficiently – nobody called me 😉
Simon Ubsdell
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[Andy Neil] “Be careful that you don’t equate experience with skill. Clearly Jan has the skill to cut a feature film. It was just not quantified (in IMDB credits). There’s no magic amulet required for cutting a film. The same skills are required for editing a good story whether it’s on TV, film, or the web. “
This is a truly extraordinary claim. Are you really saying that the “skill” of operating the kit is all that it actually takes to cut a feature film?
There is really nothing special that the top Hollywood editors bring to the table than an assistant working on a TV show wouldn’t be able to pull off?
I must have misunderstood you, surely? But what else am I to make of “There is no magic amulet required for cutting a feature film”?
[Andy Neil] “Your hypothetical is also flawed because no one (not myself nor the directors) is saying that FCPX is a “superior” NLE. Only that it was the best choice for their chosen workflow.”
OK, so what was so vital in terms of their workflow that meant it was so completely unachievable in Media Composer or Premiere that the only option was to hire a novice in order to be able to cut it in FCP X? I guess there are many things we don’t yet know but I’d be surprised to hear that there really was a deal-breaking factor. Beyond, of course, the desire of the directors to be extremely hands-on with the edit … which is quite another story.
[Andy Neil] “The unique element in this example is that FCPX is still a pretty new program comparatively, and with the resistance from the film editor community, they probably found it impossible to hire a veteran film editor who was willing or able to cut in FCPX. “
I’m not sure I believe this. I’m sure there are plenty of experienced editors who if approached would have agreed to get sufficiently familiar with X to be able to take on this job and do it very well. For my part, I’m always astonished that anyone thinks that X is that difficult or time-consuming to learn for an experienced and reasonably intelligent editor – it really isn’t, unless of course you have training to sell.
There is a desire on the part of X enthusiasts to claim that it is so ridiculously complex that it takes years of dedicated training to achieve anything like proficiency. I’m really not convinced by this. Experienced editors have adapted to many changes in their tools and while there are some that are resistant, there are plenty that are not.
The notion that all experienced editors are resistant to FCP X and therefore the only editors who can be employed to use X are those with assistant-level editing experience seems pretty far-fetched.
The reality us surely that Ficarra and Requa, whether rightly or wrongly, don’t believe that an experienced editor brings that much of value to the party.
Still, I wish them all the best with their movie and hope that the results prove they made the right choice.
Simon Ubsdell
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[Walter Soyka] “it would be interesting to know more about the politics behind the workflow as well as the workflow itself. An unproven editor using an unproven NLE doesn’t square with the risk-averse Hollywood image that’s so often painted here.”
Yes, the decision is a really intriguing one from so many different perspectives.
What I think is definitely implicit here is a devaluing of the craft of editing at the highest level.
Maybe that’s a good thing – maybe there isn’t in fact anything special about being able to cut a feature film, but having seen close up the breathtaking brilliance of some of the world’s top feature editors and the utter havoc that inexperienced editors can wreak on the material, I have yet to be convinced that you’re not better off focusing on the talent rather than the tech.
But maybe FCP X is the turning point … maybe it’s the point at which directors start to cut their own material and the specialist editing discipline starts to die out.
In a sense of course, the Coen brothers started that process with FCP Legacy but I kind of think there’s something freakishly special about their all-round film-making talents rather than that all directors are automatically going to make the best editors.
The trouble with cutting your own material – and this applies at all levels of editing – is that you rarely have enough distance from the creation of it to make suitably objective judgements and I’ve seen this on loads of features where the director got too close (often the issue with novice film-makers). This is something that you lose if the editor gets replaced …
But maybe that’s were we’re headed – if so, please discuss as it’s genuinely fascinating, perhaps even more so than metadata 🙂
Simon Ubsdell
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[Shawn Miller] “Nope, I don’t think it’s just you. 🙂 “
Whew, I was getting worried 😉
Simon Ubsdell
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