[Rob Clapham]

Hi,

It appears by the link posted by Graham that Mercalli 4 isn’t supported in Vegas 12.

You could always purchase the standalone version of Mercalli, unfortunately it is more expensive compared with the Sony Vegas plugin version. https://www.prodad.com/home/products/video_optimization/mercalli_v4,l-us.html

Also, I believe that if you use New Blue FX Titler depending on which was installed first, Mercalli (plugin version NOT the stand alone version) can break it. There is a fix, but I can’t find it at the minute.

I would hold off on purchasing the stand alone version at the minute, unless you desperately need it now, because very often these video plugin sites have very deep discounts during the course of the year.

Best, Rob

[Rob Clapham]

You’re welcome Jona, sorry it wasn’t much use for you!

Best, Rob

[Rob Clapham]

Hey all,

I rendered my Neat Video plug in, in Sony MXF, the one with a default bitrate of 36mbps. Worked a treat and a slightly smaller file size than the original file from my camera.

I also sped up NeatVideo by changing the temporal radius down to 1. So it is now rendering at 11fps (or at least that’s what NeatVideo kindly tells me.) I also have a question about dithering – I’ll save that for a new thread though, as it may be helpful for others.

I haven’t tried MXF outside of this, Aaron mentions that it is faster than Sony AVC – I wondered if YouTube accepts .mxf files? I’ll have to try that out later. Without testing it, I can’t say whether it is faster than Sony AVC, but between MainConcept and Sony AVC I can see very little difference in quality if any. But the render time with Sony AVC is a lot better on my current hardware – again I’ll check Sony MXF tonight.

Thanks, Rob

[Rob Clapham]

Sorry, for some reason I couldn’t open the links in your post. So, maybe my advice is wrong.

What camera is the footage from?

I believe that canon cameras (I have a 600D) record with “Computer RGB.” Maybe someone could help me explain this better? Basically Computer RGB uses a range between 0-255. Whereas other webplayers etc. use “Studio RGB” standard which is 16-235.

In Sony Vegas there is a plugin, called “Sony Levels” and you can choose “Computer RGB to Studio RGB” or “Studio RGB to Computer RGB” under the presets. In my case, because I have a 600D which records in Computer RGB – I would need to use the “Computer RGB to Studio RGB” preset.

Hope this is of some benefit! If my suggestion is wrong, I’m sorry!

[Rob Clapham]

Hi Aaron, just mentioned about OBS in my other post.

I think one has consider what OBS is predominantly aimed for, which is live streaming. That is not to say you can’t use it for local recording, but rather just some pointers from my experience with the program.

If the op only wants to record locally, then I’m sure you’re suggest is very valid – I personally haven’t tried it, but I will have a look when I do need to record some in game footage for a specific video.

The only reason, I have recorded files with OBS locally was to test out my live streaming settings which are outlined over on twitch.tv. You need very low bitrates anything from 2000kbps to 3500kbps – I hear that twitch get a little sensitive if you go over their limits, especially if you’re new to the game. But, maybe that’s just an urban legend.

In my case, I guess checking the CFR box is a must, as Aaron points out to achieve a constant frame rate you need to use a bitrate of 12000-22000kbps. Also, you are able to record directly in .mp4 with OBS, I’m not sure if this is the case so much now, but the guys over on OBS do/did state that recording in .flv is much more stable. Maybe I’m wrong, because when I livestream I also record the file locally – the default is that the recorded file is in fact saved as .mp4 so, I guess it can’t be ‘that’ unstable.

As for using intel quick sync or nvenc – in my experience, testing these at very low bitrates, they look hideous compared to h264. But intel quick sync does look better than nvenc at lower bitrates – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6uaPD_5r4w . If you are interested in using quick sync here is a tutorial to set it up with one monitor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idhkZy-tMTU . My tip is to ‘move’ the extended monitor, so that the mouse doesn’t move over to the virtual monitor.

I’m sure using intel quicksync or nvenc with higher bitrates or as suggested by Aaron would produce more than acceptable videos. But I would say, record a few test files find a bitrate you’re happy with, see if the framerate is variable and then decide whether or not you want to use the CBR box under advanced settings.

An alternative would be to record with Nvidia’s Shadow Play, I haven’t used this yet, but I have read that the files aren’t supported in Sony Vegas, so you may need to transcode them in handbrake – which I guess you don’t want to do. I guess the advantage of recording in OBS with Nvenc is that you have a choice to use .flv or .mp4.

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[Rob Clapham]

Hi all,

Thanks again for all the replies.

I think we’re getting somewhere with the long render times!

I’ll just try to summarise everything I’ve done so far and include you’re opinions too. As John rightly pointed out, I really should have done my render test with no effects. Naively, my thought process was “these are the plugins I will use, so that’s how I will test.” Since my first post, albeit mainly testing with Sony AVC, as this seems to be the quickest option (without frame serving) I realise that my render time isn’t as bad as it first appears.

The encoding preset I used was Sony AVC, I changed it so it was at 1080p 30 (29.970) and set the bitrate to 8mbps. With no effects, it took 1min 10sec to render 1 minute of video. This, to me is reasonable considering I don’t have an i7, and can’t use my Nvidia card. I’m not sure if you guys who specialise in video would find this unacceptable? But this is quicker than I expected, bearing in mind I had only ever used dual core processors in the past. I disabled all effects and NeatVideo was the first in the chain, I enabled NeatVideo and the render time jumped back up to just over 7 minutes. Considering my first post and the tests were 8 minutes with Sony AVC – All the other effects including adding noise to dither (which I guess wouldn’t be needed if I didn’t use NeatVideo?), Sony Convolution Kernel (sharpening), Magic Bullet Looks (cinestyle s-curve, shoulder tool), Sony Levels (computer RGB to studio RGB) added 1 minute of rendering time to my video. I did not test each of these effects to see exactly how much time each adds to the render – to me an extra minute to make my videos look a lot nicer is a reasonable trade off.

So as it stands NeatVideo is what is making my render times jump up significantly. As John points out it is a render hog. I did a couple more tests with NeatVideo, I added the preset back to my video (ctrl z – so it was the same noise profile in all my tests.) I went into NeatVideo’s settings and you can change how it processes, so you can use CPU only, GPU only or CPU and GPU. CPU only gave me just over 7min 40sec (no other effects) render time. GPU only gave a render time of just over 6min 30sec. In NeatVideo there is the option to let it automatically optimise itself between CPU and GPU etc. I ran this tool, and it suggested to use 3 of my CPU’s (i5 4690K) cores and all the memory of my GTX960 (4gb.) This render time then took 6min 10sec to render. So those with more powerful hardware, can possibly expect better results, if you weren’t already aware of this feature. I will have to do a test later to see how it performs with all 4 cores of my CPU and GPU. I also wonder if NeatVideo is optimised for OpenCL, or if there are any other tricks to optimise the render time.

So to address everyone.

@John Rofrano You say to render NeatVideo upfront, do you have a preferred codec/encode setting?

@Wayne Waag I did see that in a post the other day. It sure does seem interesting, but also a little complex at first – I’m sure when it’s set up, it’s a piece of cake. I also wondered when reading the article if it’s possible to do it ‘manually.’ What I mean is, is it possible to download debug mode’s Frame Server only, and then click a few buttons to get it to work with Handbrake? Or is the more automated solution (with avisynth etc. and other downloads) suggested in the article the only answer? I only ask because I don’t really like messing with my anti-virus, and I use Avast which was also mentioned in the article. Also Looking on debug mode’s website under the usage instructions, they seem very concise and don’t mention the steps provided in the article you posted. Which I guess is designed if you want everything automated? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Also, I guess you could use intel quick sync with handbrake? Sadly I only have one monitor, but I do have it set up because I originally wanted to use quick sync with OBS, but the recording look hideous with very low bitrates (which you need to livestream.) If you’re interested in quick sync, and have one monitor you can set it up with this tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idhkZy-tMTU one extra thing I did, was to ‘move’ the extended monitor, so as to prevent the mouse moving to the virtual monitor. I’ll post a picture later to demonstrate what I mean. Also, this workaround does work for OBS, it doesn’t work in Sony Vegas to render with quick sync, you can get it to work with this tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BTx4qfBpdA , but I don’t have a spare cable to plug into my monitor at the moment – So I’m not sure if it works with Handbrake either. Also this workaround pretty much breaks the print screen function – so the snipping tool is your new best friend.

@Aaron Star I haven’t tried the .MFX>XDCAM-ex-720-60p profile, I will be sure to have a look though and let you know if it’s quicker. With the 5850 vs gtx960, I wouldn’t really be able to swap the cards out. My i5/960 rig is mini-itx with a bitfenix prodigy case. You can fit a lot in this case! But, I only went with a 450w power supply. I think the main benefits with the 960, is despite the lower memory bandwidth, is that it is probably a lot faster than the 5850 for gaming. I believe that the 960 is slightly faster than a 760. My 960 also has 4gb, this is probably not a big deal – I only got this version because it was more or less the same price in the UK as the 2gb version. Ideally I would have liked a 970, but I didn’t have the money at the time. I like the card for gaming, admittedly it’s not the best but it’s adequate. Another advntage – or so I thought at the time, was the ability to use Nvenc in OBS, which you mentioned in another post – sadly it looks even worse than quick sync, but that is at low bitrates to livestream. I’m sure if you increase the bitrate in OBS it would be more than good enough for local recording and an advantage over Nvidia’s ‘Shadow Play’ I think I read that Sony Vegas couldn’t read those files natively, but I’d have to check. So, if I was to use my 5850 it would be in my old computer with an overclocked dual core, I wondered if the GPU (5850) would be quicker despite the poorer CPU as the GPU is open cl.

I apologise for the really long post. Thanks again everyone for taking the trouble to post suggestions!

Best Rob

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[Rob Clapham]

I think its neat video that’s killing the render time it’s adding 6 minutes. all the other plug ins combined only add 1 minute to the render.

If that makes sense.

[Rob Clapham]

Hey, thanks for both of the replies.

@John Rofano
I didn’t come across those posts. Ive read them, and it makes sense. It’s just one of those things I guess. It’s a shame that modern Nvidia cards aren’t supported. I guess it was the move to Nvenc. But I checked my card and it does support open cl 1.2, seems funny Nvidia doesn’t optimise their drivers for this!

Sadly, I wont’t be able to upgrade for a while – as i upgraded from an i3 4430, I don’t even want to imagine the time it would take for that to render!

I do have one other option… I’ve still got my first pc I ever made… Ergh… Sure it has a dual core e8400 but it does have an ATI 5850, I wonder if that card would be able to do anything quicker even with the dual core cpu.

@Aaron Star
This is very detailed and perhaps a little over my head. But I do appreciate the explanation. I’ll have to take some time to let it sink in (it’s been a long day.) So Vegas is optimised for sony would transcoding my files to a sony format make much sense? I guess it would still be as broad as it is long.

As for 60p vs 30p I understand your point and would agree if it was live action. Personally I think watching a video of a video game with 60p does make a huge difference. I would argue that a 720p 60 video looks better than 1080p 30 – that’s just my opinion. But you are right, if it was 60p live action, it has that wierd plasticy look.

I just rendered a 1 minute clip sony avc 720p 60 video (no effects) in 2 minutes. For continuity a 1080p 30 clip no effects in 1 minute 15 (suggested by John.) 1080p 60 again took 2 minutes, I would have thought the lower resolution of 720 might have sped it up a little. So my effects are adding 7 minutes render time per 1 minute…

[Rob Clapham]

I just did a little more digging. I looked at my .flv files’ properties none contain a framerate this doesn’t mean that it isn’t constant though!

Basically in OBS you have to go to the advanced settings tab and check ‘use CFR’ (constant framerate) https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/cfr-option.1741/ Then choose the framerate under the video settings tab.

The only reason to transcode it then, is to get a format sony vegas can use.

Also i just put in a 2 hour video from obs, no real issues… I’ve got a 4690k and gtx 960. So this variable bitrate thing must be the culprit.

Hope that helps!

[Rob Clapham]

Hi, I use OBS and looking at some of the posts.

I haven’t imported massive files into Sony Vegas yet, but I haven’t had any playback issues using Vegas for camera video, or the OBS files I have tested on. I typically convert the .flv files to .mp4 as it is recommended to record .flv by OBS – it’s more stable. As a side note, I livestream and you can also save the file locally (instead of downloading from Twitch for example, in this case the file is .mp4.) I livestream at 720p 60 @ 3000kpbs, and sadly OBS doesn’t let you drop the framerate down to 59.940, same for 30 down to 29.976. I’d have to check the properties of the file to see the actual framerate. I have also not noticed that the framerate was varied in my videos?

Have you enabled the GPU in vegas?

When I convert the .flv with Handbrake I basically use the VBR with 2 pass at 60fps I set the bitrate to 3500kbps, slightly higher than the original file – not sure if that is recommended, but I figured it would keep the original bitrate more intact as it is already very low. If you’re using a higher bitrate because you are recording locally just match that in handbrake or lower it if you think that will work.

I hope some of what I’ve said helps/makes sense.