[Richard Herd]

[Simon Ubsdell] “it should have”

Franz? This.

[Richard Herd]

I’m also a wrestling folk style wresting referee. For me, UFC is a joke of a “style.” It needs some kind of standing 8 count so the referee can control the action. Right now it’s either let someone get pounded or call the fight preemptively.

[Richard Herd]

It’s interview footage — all of it — all at once.

He cuts the radio edit. This point, up until Andy raised it, has been overlooked in this supra-meta-thread. Simon concedes the point. His sculpting is tailored to this radio edit deliverable.

Then he looks at the picture framing quality etc.

Then he finds b-roll.

I think you’re quite correct, Mr. Patterson.

[Richard Herd]

You’re welcome.

Also, this is simply my opinion: I would not change editing platforms because the learning curve will eat your profit margin. None of the buttons will be where you’re used to. Some of the buttons will have different names than you’re used to and that makes it even more difficult to find answers in the manuals and tutorials.

Since you know the software you know, in my view, stick to it because “upgrading” has hidden costs everywhere. Plug-ins may or may not work. codecs may or may not work. File permissions may or may not work. So many things. You’ll be spending time chasing-down these problems instead of editing. It would then be natural to think “should I bill my client for me not knowing the software.” And, “I’m not a good editor.” And other negative stuff.

Lately, I have run into a bunch of editors who receive an amazing amount of coverage and then they wonder why their system struggles with the footage. They say I just spent $5,000 on the latest thing so why isn’t my computer working. What am I doing wrong? Their solution is old school and it is what Media Composer is very good at: transcode the selects into intraframe (DNxHD). These new editors seem to dislike that answer.

In other words, the files from your client, in my (perhaps controversial) view, should always be treated like “digital tapes.” Even though it sounds convenient to edit the “digital tape” on the timeline, with the amount of footage you have it is a nightmare. When a cut is made that is not on the I-frame, then the computer still has to render that picture-frame-color-data from the previous I-frame, store that information on your system, and render the footage that’s after it, storing the footage again. There is no way around this render-new-media problem. So even though “updated” editing software seems like it does fancy stuff, it really doesn’t change the fundamentals. I have not even mentioned color correction or cropping and reframing. Then when picture is locked, you render and compress…it can really take a long time.

You can be confident in Media Composer 5.5’s workflow and transcode the digital tape to DNxHD, like we should be doing with digital tape and definitely need to do with huge amounts of coverage. You won’t know how to treat the footage until you receive the footage. But you’ll be able to find the codec and search the Cow for “how do I get [codec] into DNxHD.” That’s an easy solve compared to learning a new software platform.

I hope this makes sense. Wrote more than I intended.

[Richard Herd]

You sound like LeStat and his savage garden. 🙂

[Richard Herd]

Acquisition is more like knowing by doing and errors are seen as developmental. Learning is more like knowing by being told and errors as seen as mistakes.

[Richard Herd]

[Franz Bieberkopf] ““good editing”. How do you define it?”

That is the main question. I think we have to look to the work itself. In addition, the knowledge of craft is the practice of the craft but that is not knowledge. For knowledge, we see the doctor tells the patients how to be healthy; how the Cow tells the “new” editors the craft. At that point, in my view, our knowledge becomes/is (don’t get me started on that!) moral philosophy.

[Franz Bieberkopf] “the functional difference between the various platforms is small enough that there is not much influence on editing approach”

My observations of this forum (and I won’t go search for posts) the “FCPX-bar theorists” (haha) often say something like X is revolutionary. They consider the new editing metaphor as causing their editing. Simon’s post also did that. His timeline “causes” editing. The discussion between Jeremy and Simon was my favorite part of the thread.

[Richard Herd]

[Rich Rubasch] “how successful are you with getting paid any money “up front” meaning a check in hand before you even start editing? I”

That’s kind of a funny question. I’m 100% successful getting the deposit when clients agree to it. I’m 100% successful finding out which clients to avoid if they don’t agree to it.

If your business has a different risk position, then that’s cool too.

So I should revise my comment. Somehow, we need to implement a process to manage our risk position, and a deposit is one such way; a firm handshake is too.

For me, when Ms. Llamido mentioned he logged the footage in excel, that raised a flag. When he assumed a 10-minute video would cost more than a 2-minute video, that raised another flag. When it’s roughly 16 hours of footage, the flags waving in the breeze meant it’s time to bust out the Clients and Grinders article.

[Richard Herd]

For me, I would need to know the total running time (not the storage) of all the footage. 16 hours (as a guess) of footage has to be watched. Triple that time for the 10 minute video. Then you cut the shorter video from the 10-minute piece. and you can triple that again. This I feel is easily 50 hours–a whole week! Are you recording and editing voice over? What about music? These are both hard costs.

In general he has it backwards. It takes longer to make a short video, because the editor has to make more edit decisions.

I’d use his notes, of course, so that I can get a sense of what he likes, but that won’t make the edit shorter or save him money. When we put a shot next to a shot it creates a meaning and feeling. We can’t know that until we do it, and add the VO and music. So his notes of what he likes may or may not work in the edit.

You’re running a business and trying to make a profit and keep your customer happy–aren’t we all! After you agree to the price, you need 50% non-refundable deposit upfront. Then when you turn in the rough cut of the 10-minute piece, you get paid 25%. Then there will probably be changes. There are always changes. So you can cut those and that will inform you of what the 2-minute piece will be.

Please read this article: https://library.creativecow.net/wall_kylee/jane_tattersall_handmaids_tale_audio/1

and also this one: https://library.creativecow.net/lindeboom_ron/clients_or_grinders/1

[Richard Herd]

Yeah that’s super difficult. If I were in your dilemma I would talk to these people: https://library.unr.edu/atone

My wife got her PhD at UNR and I spent a considerable amount of time in that media lab, and they did it right. Good luck!