[Peter Groom]

HI
I think the kona is a capture card, not an output card so its not in the equation.
The electrovoice appears to be a voice pre, so its on the input sidee of things.
So your question re the speakers is really as follows.

The speakers need amplification. The amp provides this. The amp must go just before the speakers. The amps manual will tell you which xlr cores go to the speakers but Id GUESS that its 1 and 2 of the XLR need to go to the red and blaclk of the speakers.

If you want to use your mixer with the mics and the pres etc then iy will need to have monitoring paths on it to be able to be used as an OUTPUT as well as and input to the computer. Id keep it simple and go
computer out – amp – speakers.

Mixer inputs are mics / pres etc etc and this output to the kona.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Azden isnt in the UK so no direct experience from me.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Ok.
All mics, pre amps , electronics, etc generate a certain level of inherent noise. This is called the noise floor, and is one of the main differences in engineering between a £100 mic and a £3000 mic etc. This noise floor is always there, but thats not the issue, The issue is creating a recording that is sufficiently well above the noise floor to create as much separation. If the difference between the recorded audio and the noise floow is massive, then increasing levels in post will increase both but the RELATIONSHIP betwqeen them remains the same.

Even the quietest room has a bg noise level, its just a matter of how quiet or noisy this is. But its the relationship between the nose floor and the audio average youre trying to maximise. There go the £££.

Equipment has in its tech specs this “signal to noise ratio”.

re
Is it possible to use the mic with both phantom power and the battery? Is that even possible?

NO. The mic will take its power from the onboard battery OR the external power. Not both. I dont know which it will favour 1st. THAT is a good question that Im ashamed to say I dont know the answer to.
Were all learning every day. When I stop learning, Ill get a job in a bank.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

HI Isaac
You did ask for a non jargon reply so i did my best (as I do lapse into tech jargon speak all too easily)

Some festivals may accept or even require a 5.1 mix, but as festival level, I think theyre more interested in the film and the craft rather than if its in 5.1.

If you mix it yourself in FCP, look at every transition and smooth it. A cut on the track in an fcp might sound ok, but when you put it in a cinema / theatre it sounds DOG ROUGH.

A big issue in my mind that Video NLEs suffer from a crudeness of the edit. +or- 1 frame is so rough its unreal, compared with say pro tools where you can get an edit accuracy down to the sample (1 48000 of a second). Edits that cant be made right in the video suite can be fixed easily in Pro Tools.
Do consider taking it out of FCP to a Pro tools for finishing. Its a different league!

Id humbly (not my biggest strongpoint normally) suggest that your initial acceptance that you dont know about sound mixing is a big stumbling block, and why id really suggest you give it to a pro, or someone at least who does know.
Mixing is a VERY subtle art, not a general “you put it at this level”.
The sound track is a really strong emotive vehicle and one you should embrace, not allow to happen somehow.
It creates mood, happiness, stress, euphoria, and every feeling in between. It can frighten the lives out of your audience, make them cry and so much more. If the sound isnt your bag (which is fair enough as we all have different skills) do either learn and invest the effort to make it 100% or get someone else to do it, who does know.

I dont want you to feel like Im saying youre not capable, but you did say you dont know about sound mixing. Its a complex art (way more complesx than grading, editing or compositing, and shouldnt be overlooked or underestimated.

Lastly – film makers invest their heart and soul and cash into writing, casting, shooting , lighting, editing and promoting their films, which is great. But the sound track can drag ALL of that down and its a shame when it happens.

I often lecture at Universities on Advanced audio Post techniques, and spend most of my lecture having this discussion and showing the reasons why the audio NEEDS and wants a fair crack of the whip.

Cheers
Peter

Which country are you in?
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Ok, here we go, simplified

I’m shooting a short on a 5d mark 2, external sound is with zoom h4n and rode mic.(AND HEADPHONES!!!!!!!!!)

Separate sound – very good!

Im looking to achieve a 5.1 mix.

OK but make sure you do a 2 ch stereo mix too as lots of festivals wont be able to cope with 5.1

I DON’T KNOW HOW TO SOUND MIX, so I plan on sending it off to a post production company.
Good move!

1. What should I send to the post production company, what files?

Cut your film in AVID/ FCP / whatever.
Lay all your sync sound WITH dialogue on tracks 1 and 2
Lay all your sync effects on 3 and 4
Lay all your music on pairs ie 56 / 78 / 910 etc.
Lay plenty of added atmos, effects , wild tracks on more stereo tracks.

Once everything you have got is on the timeline, export an OMF or an AAF file of your sequence with 100 frame handles.
Save this OMF or AAF
Make a picture file of the same sequence. MAKE NO FURTHER PICTURE CHANGES THAT AFFECT THE LENGTH. If you have to then remake the OMF / AAF.
Give these to the post house.

They will make a discreet mix as follows
1 Left front (sync effects, music, extra effects, panning dialogue, atmosses etc etc)
2 Centre (Dialogue pinned ONLY)
3) As 1 but right leg
4) Rear left. Atmosses, travelling effects, music trails / reverbed music
5) Rear right As rear left but right leg
6) LFE track. This stands for Low frequency effects. This depends on the content but may contain nothing. DONT put music into LFE. The front channels are full bandwidth so will carry all the low freq of the music. This is not what the .1 channel is for.

At the end of the mix you will have created 56 x mono wav files that run the length of the film. These are called DISCREET mixes.

The post house or DVD / Blu ray authoring engineer will then place these into software and create an AC3 file which goes into the DVD authoring program.

The mix engineer will also do an Lt Rt fold down mix into a stereo file for the non surround version. This will be a standard stereo wav.
This also will be used in the authoring process to allow the user to choose the audio version to be played back.

Done.

ALTERNATIVELY

1. How could I do this myself, what hardware and software would I need, if even possible?

Quite possibly. If you have read, understood all of the above and think thats all absolutely obvious then you could do it yourself. If not, then dont even try. If as you say, you dont know how to sound mix then Id leave it to the mix engineer. He does know how to sound mix and has all of the kit you ask about – Protools, speaker setups, metering, software, encoding software, experience and knowlege to make it happen.

I WOULD encourage you to give it a go some day if youre interested to try but NOT on a job you care about. Levels, eq, balancing and dozens of other things all need to be right. Its a steep learning curve if youre in a hurry.

2. Is it important to have a 5.1 mix in the first place?
Depends on the festival. Mostly id say not.
But making a decent stereo mix is its self a big task.

3. Have you had your short or film in a festival, what was your post workflow (specifically your sound mix)?
Yes many times .Above is a massively simplified workflow. The rest is experience and equipment.
One Ive spend 27 years developing. Id encourage you to buy into that experience at a studio near you for the results you ll not regret when you hear it on the big screen.
It sounds completely different to the edit suite.

Good luck

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

I wouldnt have thought that the mic line setting would have anything to do with the onboard mics but ive never seen or touched this unit before.

getting it into the pc via usb as wavs is god, and theres nothing wrong with using FCP or avid or anything else.

Id be looking at what your meters on the tascam are doing. Is there a sensitivity control anywhere in a menu IN ADDITION to the hardware pots on the unit?

yes phantom will drain the batteries quickly. It does on my Zoom H4n.

You just need to get to the bottom of the levels. You should be making a recording with a healthy level, hence creating a real difference between your audio and the ever present noise floor. Boosting in edit machine will boost the hiss / bg noise equally so its best to get the recording correct 1st and boost only a little in the mix.

You really need someone who has the unit. have you spoken to tascam?
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

are these unidirectional mics the on board fixed mics?

What do the meters say on the unit. Low / med / high?
How are you getting it into the computer. Digital audio, file or analogue?
What are the mic line switches set to.
does the AT mic have power internally?

peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Yes Im aware of magic lantern.

I tell my cameramen, that if they want paying, not to do it.
Recording audio onto a DSLR is not approved by me, so it wont happen until that changes in our company.
Sep sound or a proper camera designed with pro audio interfaces is our policy.

Good luck
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

On the BH website the following is shown

Operating Voltage 2-10VDC
Current Draw 0.5mA

so as Eric says, there is no powering from the camera, so the mic wont work.
You should also be aware that level adjustemnt, metering and monitoring leave a lot to be desired on these DSLR cameras, so its likely that plugging in a mic directly to the DSLR will result in disappointing audio recordings. Its all about what you think is good enough.

I had a cameraman who recorded into his DSLR and brought me the audio, which he felt was really good. I thought it was awful. Harsh and edgy, AGC limited, poor noise floor. Horrific and he though it was great!!
Depends what you think is good, but that mic is designed to work with the azden radio where it will be supplied the correct operating voltage.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

HI Richard
Yes the time is a big factor to me.
When Im in a mix with director, production and a whole load of hangers on, the pace is high and results need to be instant.
Spotting an issue such as a pop or a clunk in the dub, isolating it in izotope, removing the issue and putting it back into the timeline, all within 10 seconds is regular in my life.
And of course my clients are paying good money, justifying the outlay on the tools. Its all about time vs results.
Cheers
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer