[Peter Groom]

Does problem still come through speakers with no connection to anything except to mains power
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Hi again

when looking at delivery specs and they say ” recorded” its highly unlikely the are making any comment on the shoot recording. Im certain they mean the mix recording. What you deliver as the film soundtrack. so the mix can be stereo or surround, as i said originally.

maximum audio peaks will be minus 10db (or dbfs to be more accurate). This means -10db from full scale o point (where clipping occurs). This relates as follows.
PPM 4 ikhz tone is at -18dbfs. (might be -20 in US)
PPM 4 – PPM 6 is 8db so this is the max MIX level at ppm6 or -10 dbfs.
It doesnt matter what peaks you record at on location (apart from staying away from distortion or being so quiet as to be useless. They refer to MIX levels.

Tracks are usually referring to record tracks and channels are normally referring to mixing console channels. A 2 track recorder but yes some might refer to this as a 2 channel recorder incorrectly. Doesnt matter too much i dont think.
Ultimately , a 2 track recorder can only record 2 different recordings at once. If you need more than 2 sources recording at the same time, you will need to MIX some together on multiple channels of a mixer to the 2 record tracks.

I Hope thats clear for you.

The point you need to address is
” how will you ensure your final mix meets this spec?”
Who will mix it and do they have the correct equipment to read the peaks correctly and control the levels to the right mix.?

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

HI Neil
I had a listen to the 2 tracks you uploaded.

The background room liveness on the original is much much reduced on the treated vo, so thats been positive.
Was it the exact same recording?. If it was it must have been the lf filter that helped that away although I didnt get such a decrease in bg room tone with just the filters i suggested in my studio.

The levels are much better too as can be seen by comparing the waveforms. Increasing the level wouldnt get rid of the room liveness, as this would merely increase with the gain increase proportinately.

The eq is punchier and the vo will sit over other soundtrack elements like sync fx, bg fx and music much better. On my speakers
big Genelecs at work and smaller genelecs at home, it does sound pretty bright and crisp – perhaps a fraction too much?!?, but its down to personal taste really. Certainally no more Id suggest.

Try both over musc bed etc and see the difference in where you can sit the music before you lose the words.?
Good job.
Cheers
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Without hearing it , were stabbing in the dark, but in general terms id
1) apply a little light compression, maybe a 3:1 or 2:1 ratio. and would set the threshold to result in about a 4 or 5 db reduction in level, and then apply the make up gain of that amount to put it back up.
2) To brighten, I generally opt for the 7 band eq3 digirack eq from within pro tools, but the same plugin is within AVID too.
Id apply the HF filter boost by 3-5 db (right end control in blue)
This will add crispness and cut through.
3) I might use the same eq LF control (red on left end) to decrease any background rumble. If its a female VO then she wont have any LF down there (I HOPE) so it wont affect the words, but will take any bg rumble out.-10db at 80-100hz should do it.
4) The green High MF control on a small boost at 1k will really punch through her clarity but be careful with that one as it will send your level much higher very easily with an female voice.
But like always, use your ears to tell you. These are just general pointers and make no allowance for her sound, tone, any sibillance etc.

Post a short sample if you like and ill eq it on the 7 band eq and tell you the settings.?!?
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

HI
1) I dont necessarily agree that using a stand alone recorder is the way to go. It depends on if the camera you are using is properly equipped for audio recording. I hate recording (and wont do it) to a DSLR, but if your camera has proper audio connections and monitoring and metering then go straight to that. If not, there are a variety of stand alone recorders you can use, ranging from semi pro level devices like a Zoom H4n onto an sdhc card for £300 ish up to full pro devices like dound devices and devas.
What camera is it?

1a) If you have static interviewees, then you could pop a personal mic on each and mix it, or if you want to be what is called gun & run, news style then most directional rifle mics with a wind shiled will suffice, but they will need to be moved to take the question and then answers. the 416 is probably the most well known, but really most mics with a decent reach will do the job. NOT s stage mic like an sm58. They need to get too close.

2) Well you answered it yourself. They are using lav mics which is what id recommend Omni directional lav mics. The TV will also be mixing theirs so only the featured speakers mic is open, the others will be off or significantly reduced in fader position. If you leave all the mics open and theyre not terribly close, then youll get a lot of coulouration (which is sound being picked up by other peoples mics in addition to its own. Are you recording them separately or mixing them, and are you relly mixing them or just combining them into a recording.
A theatre will always have some liveness about it, but using a lav mic will reduce this as it will only pick up in the immediate circle around the mic, reducing the background noise significantly, but not entirely.
If reverb is really an objection you need to do 1 of the following

1) live with it
2) change the location to a more acoustically controlled space
3) control the acoustic of that space using drapes, dampening, soft furnishings, boards and dividers.

And the most important thing of all is ALWAYS wear headphones that allow you to hear what you are getting, rather than getting back to the edit and being disappointed / criticized for your recording.
Dont ever record without headphones. NOT for anyone. – ever

Post a sample of the file if you like and ill have a listen.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Andrew – you are right.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Andrew
Indistinguishable , APART from the fact that the music is undipped, making it totally different.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

I have to hand in a stereo program mix on track 1 & 2 of the digibeta anyway, so I thought they would take whatever was needed beyond the voice-over sequences from there.

Theyll not be wanting to mess on with mix and matching.

What you actually have to deliver could go 2 ways.
1) And this is what Id do.
Just put the full mix minus any vo on 3/4. If that is the same as 1/2 , so be it. They probably dont appreciate that fact.

2) And you dont want to have to do this.
They may want a full fx bed whereby all words , of any sort, are removed. This is a mega task and youd better hope loads of wild track was recorded for you. So if someone is interviewed, only the atmos of the room, or the park, or the seaside etc etc is left. If someone is walking down the street chatting, the words go and leave just the street bg.

If this IS what their delivery spec requires, then youd better hope that was budgeted for in the project financing, as it will take a long time and effort in the dub.

Go route 1 and let them complain!
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

Hi
Ill answer from my experience. Others may disagree.

An M&E’s purpose is to allow another engineer take the audio track and re version / re work it usually for a foreign language. This will almost certainally differ in dialogue length, timing and gapping.

So I always Include EVERYTHING except the Voice over.
I do include any performances, effects, sync dialogue, and most importantly would mix these at the level Id want them if they WERENT under VO ie higher and without dipping. This is called an undipped stem and shows understanding for the fact that the new vo will not sit in exactly the same places as the old, so music level changes in gaps etc can be added where needed, not where they used to be (which is now irrelevant.
so point 1 yes bring it up and dont dip it.
point 2 Id want everything except the vo in it if i were receiving it.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Peter Groom]

OK
If you are ensuring that every bit of every clip is reading on your meters at the same level (or near enough) then the difference on playback can only be

1) Caused by different types of sound Ie if you have lots of bass energy causing a high meter reading, but the tv speakers just arent designed to cope with that bass, then they just wont replicate it and whats left after subtracting the bass could be very little. So have a liten to the audio and see if its comparable.

2) you are only making the initial audio hit the metered peak, not all of it. are you riding / adjusting the levels throughout?

3) is your playback system in stereo?
If its mono there may be a phase cancellation issue going on. This could be caused by out of phase recordings, mix, or cables running to the tv??
4) Are all the tvs set up the same and correctly?

A piece of software you might like to try is levelator. Google it. Its free and places everthing at the same value. Its effects can be pretty good.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer