[Per Holmes]

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for that link, I will study it. It might not work, though, as some of the media isn’t MXF, but coming out of some Sony cameras. All the sources play in realtime on a ProRes 422 timeline, so probably the timeline multicam is what I need to get working.

I’ve come up with some solutions which are printed in the other threads. Some involve QuicKeys to make a sort of ad-hoc camera switcher. Another involves a workflow for building a final edit on Track 10 (or whatever is your highest track), but copying the footage you need up from each source below. This way, you can build a timeline where each track represents a camera, and edit from it directly.

Cheers,

Per

[Per Holmes]

There is no list of requested fixes, and my goal is not for FCP to be Avid — I really don’t care, I don’t mind learning a different workflow. The problem is only when something is completely impossible.

The request is very simple, and it’s written over and over (by me, and everybody else on the internet):

Allow cameras to start and stop in multiclip.

That’s it, there’s nothing more to it. But because it can’t do that, and it hasn’t been added to 3 full version updates, any real-world multicam editor is sent on a massive workaround that doesn’t really work.

But even if Apple were to suddenly achieve enlightenment with regard to multiclip, it doesn’t help, because it would take some time for such an update to be rolled out. So that’s why I’m writing the various half-assed solutions I’m coming up with for the benefit of the community.

Of course, if you’re not interested in a solution, then it just seems like a lot of text. If you do multicam, you already have this problem, and then maybe it would be easier to appreciate an attempt at coming up with a solution.

The solutions that I’ve written DO work — yes, they’re cumbersome as heck, but suddenly it’s possible AT ALL to edit multicam with footage that starts and stops.

The QuicKeys solution is ultimately unstable, because Apple never makes it possible to set an absolute setting for anything, everything is a relative toggle. Therefore, you can’t hope to automate it, because you can’t know in advance which state a certain button is in, so you don’t know how many times to toggle it in the macro.

The most workable solution is to simply use Solo Track to find your footage, then Add Edit ad your start and end points, and Option-Shift-Drag your footage up to track 10 where you build your final edit.

Gradually, this makes your original sources (track 1-9) look extremely confusing, but it’s non-destructive, and you get to edit with a multicam sort of logic, where you decide which camera to cut to. It’s very labor intensive to make each single edit, but I guess in time one can become faster at the operation.

So if you have some multicam footage, give it a shot, and see if you like it.

Best,

Per

[Per Holmes]

Yep, I actually know that. I had mentally discarded it because I want it to enhance resolution in-place, i.e. not uprez but just super-sample, which it doesn’t do. I’ll give it a test for the uprez, the demos look good.

I’m also playing with Topaz Enhance, which separates out the enhancement functions, so they can be used separately from the enlargement function, so simply super-sample 720p in place. I’m actually most attracted to simply making my 720p look as good as it can and output as that.

Thanks,

Per

[Per Holmes]

Hi,

OK, if anyone is following my little blog here, the Cmd-0 actually DOES work in every case, but QuicKeys was playing back keystrokes too fast. I’ve set the keystroke speed to 0.05 sec, and that seems to always work.

This workflow is almost not annoying, actually. I’m quite easily selecting regions from a bunch of lined-up tracks and copying them to the top track with a single keystroke. I think this can work.

Best,

Per

[Per Holmes]

There seems to be a bug in the macro, because now the Cmd-0 thing only needs to be run once. I’m not sure why this is different, the previous timeline only worked when I did it twice.

That’s what’s so annoying with FCP toggle system, both in terms of macros and in terms of usability, because you never know where you are, so you can’t just hit a key and expect a certain behavior, which you can do much more in Avid. In FCP, snapping for example depends on the current snapping setting, where as in Avid you’re always snapping with a certain key held down, and never snapping with that key released — it’s completely absolute.

This FCP behavior leads to a pretty unpredictable user-interface, and considering that Apple wrote the Human Interface Guidelines in the 80s, that everybody has since copied, it’s kind of funny to have an Apple program that has unpredictable keyboard behavior pretty much across the board. Having edited quite a lot in Final Cut Pro now, I still can’t say with any certainty if I’m snapping or not without trying, or looking at the icon. I can’t feel in my hands and in my gut what’s going to happen when I press a key, it’s like a small experiment every single time.

But to stay on topic, this is apparently making it hard to make a macro that depends on deselecting all Auto Selects before selecting a specific one.

Best,

Per

[Per Holmes]

Hi,

If anyone is interested in these solutions, I’ve come up with a way to get some help from QuicKeys to do multicam editing from the timeline, in a way that actually could be tolerable.

The point again is that you have 5 to 10 tracks of multicam footage, with cameras coming and going, sound recorded separately, and this is all lined up on a timeline. This method allows you to select a track, select in/out points, and then copy footage within the in/out points up to the top track, where your final edit is assembled. This is done with a single keystroke.

Using QuicKeys, I’ve created a macro that triggers on Ctrl-Cmd-Up Arrow. The macro does the following (your actual key mappings may be different, I’ve mapped my keys to be more similar to Avid). But it should be trivial to either remap your keys or rewrite the macro.

* Option-A (to select from In to Out on the current track).
* Q (to jump to the In locator, typical Avid mapping).
* Cmd-C (to copy the segment to the clipboard).
* G (to clear the locators).
* Cmd-0 (to reset the Auto Select assignments).
* Cmd-0 (this must be done twice for the toggle).
* Opt-F1 (I’ve placed the Toggle Auto Select – V5 on F1, because then it’s easy to change tracks by just changing the mapping on F1).
* Cmd-V (to paste the material).
* Cmd-Shift-A (to deselect all, looks nicer).

Before you run the macro, you Option-Select individual video tracks to find the footage you want. At the same time you scrub back and forth and set in and out points (presumably with the I and O keys).

Once you’ve found and marked your segment, you Option-Click on the Auto-Select button for the source track (usually the same as you’re watching), and hit Ctrl-Cmd-Up Arrow to copy it up.

That’s it, and it’s not too irritating to do many times. You tend to forget that you manually have to enable Auto Select manually before running the macro, but there’s no way to do this in the macro because QuicKeys can’t know which track you’re standing on. Unfortunately, FCP doesn’t do what it says in the manual that if no Auto Selects are enabled, it simply uses the current selection. Otherwise, this part could have been automatic.

I hope this will benefit someone. I’ll post here if I update it.

Best,

Per

[Per Holmes]

Hi,

I have at least one possible workaround going, where the idea is to simply have the final edit reside on the topmost track, and then find ways to bring the footage up to that track that you want to be part of the edit.

So you start out with 5 to 10 tracks with your footage, and it’s OK if cameras start and stop. Then basically, you first use Option-Visibility on each of the tracks to select which source you want.

Then you select the start and end of the segment to you by moving the timeline cursor to the In point and selecting Add Edit (which I have on my H key), and do the same for the Out point.

Finally, I Option-Shift drag the clip to the topmost track, which both copies it and snaps it.

The downside is that (1) it’s pretty manual, I would have loved to make a key command that does it all, and (2) it’s slightly destructive, because you end up with a bunch of added edits in the source material, although it plays the same. But it actually does work, and is only somewhat obnoxious.

Ideally, I would have wanted to simply set and In and and Out point, and then copy what’s between the locators to the clipboard and pasting it on the topmost track, but the problem with making a macro for it is that FCP doesn’t have the ability to *absolutely* turn auto-select on or off for all tracks, so you don’t know if you’re starting with all tracks on or off. So it’s hard to make a key macro, although I would have liked it much more.

I’ll play with this workflow for a while, and see how it turns out.

Best,

Per

[Per Holmes]

Hi Shane,

Being an Avid editor prior to this FCP rig, I’m actually quite impressed with FCP. I’ve used QuicKeys to automate some of the feature relating to the Trim Mode, so I can actually hammer out some trims in a hurry pretty much as I would do in Avid.

For meat and potatoes editing, I have to admit that Avid flows a lot better than FCP, but there’s also a threshold somewhere where it’s good enough that I can at least produce the end result I have in mind, even if the workflow is different. I feel that the vast majority of issues I have with FCP fall in that category. The multiclip implementation is much more binary, when it prevents you from doing what can safely be considered a more normal workflow at all.

I’m trying to find out what I can do with QuicKeys to allow me to quickly add an edit to all clips on the timeline and then disable every clip but the one that’s selected. That would make it possible to use the Solo function to select the clip you want, and then hit a QuickKey to do the labor of making a cut and disabling all other clips. It’s not ideal, and not particularly editable after the fact.

Another option I’m considering is having your footage on, say, tracks 1-6, then making edits in all 6 tracks, and simply copying the clip you want to “cut to” up on track 7. I could probably write a QuickKey that selects the content of whichever track you’re on between the In and Out points and copies it up on a high track, i.e. track 7. That would have the same effect, with the plus that it would be easier to edit.

Thanks much,

per

[Per Holmes]

Hi there,

Yes, I realize that I have an issue with the format, which is why my Reference Movies want to render.

I’m running into probably a more legitimate limitation in the multiclip functionality, that all my footage is not in the exact same format. Everything is 720p at 23.976, and all sources play in real-time on a ProRes 422 timeline, but fact is that some of my sources are HVX/P2, and some are Sony (don’t remember the codec). And that’s probably a real problem that Apple could be fully justified in not solving, since it’s probably hard enough as it is to play multiple streams. Although, it would be possible for Apple to see if the resolution and frame-rate match.

I unfortunately have no way around this, because it would limit the people I can shoot with, and above all else, as long as I can play and edit all sources in real-time on the timeline, I’ve probably reached the most important goal, as rendering raw footage just to view it would be spectacularly obnoxious.

So even if this issue were resolved by Apple, which they really ought to do, I possibly wouldn’t benefit from it anyway because of my multiple formats. Instead, I’m looking into whether I do some funky keyboard stuff with QuicKeys to perhaps automate the Solo selection and the chopping up of clips and enabling/disabling them to create a semblance of angle selection. This is probably unfortunately the way I’ll have to go. I’m not a fan of recompressing media for the purpose of bringing it into multiclip, image quality should trump my personal convenience.

You sound like you’ve put some thought into a solution, so I’ll take that as an answer.

Thanks!

Per

[Per Holmes]

Yes, I own an Avid MC with SD Out. But I couldn’t swallow almost $8,000 just for HD output for the Avid, and given that many people I know edit FCP at a high level, and a Kona card is just $1,500, I decided to take the plunge and changed my platform — because even with a brand new Mac Pro and Kona card and 12 TB of storage, I still haven’t spent the $8,000 I would have spent just on the HD output for the Avid.

I’m very impressed with much of the development that has happened for FCP, and now that they’ve finally copied Avid’s trim mode, which is simply a fantastic way to edit, frankly FCP feels a lot like an Avid. If you divide your project into many sub projects, you can even get bin-like behavior, and at the same time not freak FCP out by having very large singular projects.

But this multicam feature seems to have been designed purely from theory. You have to be UNBELIEVABLY LUCKY to end up with a multicam shoot where no single camera starts and stops. Yet, this is the only scenario that FCP can accomodate. That’s just wild, and it’s a problem that pretty much anyone who does multicam will run into, so I assumed that if there is a solution that doesn’t involve simply stacking all the clips and turning them on and off, the Creative Cow forum is surely the place to find out.

I guess I can work it out. On the upside, this particular footage doesn’t require me to experiment a lot with the editing, so the 5-10 track timeline is not as painful as it would seem. Annoying, you bet! But it’s not impossible.

Anyway, if anyone has solved this frustrating problem, I’d love to hear about it.

Thanks,

Per