Patrick Ortman
2
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
-
I feel honored that you guys are giving me your perspectives on this. Thank you.
So, do you typically have one set line item price for all shooting you do? Or do you have tiered pricing, based on what kind of a job it is? If you have tiered pricing, how do you keep from being taken advantage of by someone who hires you to shoot a lower end project and then turns around and uses your work for a higher-end project without compensation?
I’m coming from a very different world, a digital agency, where the primary way we make money is our clients paying us for a complete, finished creative project.
———————
http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Thanks, Richard-
In our case, we’re never hired to “just” shoot, we’re always hired to deliver a finished project. That’s what our contract has under deliverables- “director’s cut of xxx”.
But I do agree, if one is hired as a shooter then the footage is absolutely a work for hire.
P
———————
http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Hi John,
First, yes- different perspectives are always welcome, in my book. That’s one of the reasons I come here, too.
For us, and I imagine for many video production companies, the equipment is indeed a large and ongoing investment. However, as a business owner, my biggest expense each month is payroll and benefits.
If you look at a “rich kid” offering HD video services in NYC for $300, you may think that’s acceptable- after all, most of these kids are rocking a 7D and a pirated version of FCP. Just a few grand, right? (ps: pirating is wrong and hurtful). But mainly, I think, the mistake in this perspective is that employees do not see their time as costing anything, since they’re on salary. I assure you, your company’s owner definitely sees the cost of your salary and benefits as a real cost of doing business, and you need to include your own yearly salary and benefits as part of the true cost to produce the videos, not just a few grand in gear.
The good news: your company has invested many tens of thousands of dollars, every year, in video marketing. The “also good news” you point out: the technical quality of this video is way better, hopefully, than possible in years past if you make a few smart purchases and work at your craft.
I very much respect a company that takes their video marketing seriously enough to hire in-house staff to work it. It’s sometimes the right decision, sometimes not. Totally depends on the company, and how the videos are to be used. But it often does work. For us, we get called in to do “higher-end” projects like TV spots and tradeshow video presentations by some clients who have one or two in-house video guys. It worked the same when we mainly did website design, we often worked alongside their in-house web or graphic designer.
I think a lot of the other comments in this thread were mainly about how the quality level has dropped in many cases, and that clients in many areas seem not to give video marketing the respect it needs to be effective. In your case, your company is clearly giving video marketing it’s due. That’s great!
Patrick
———————
http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Totally agree on not expecting more than 20 hours a week of paid work on a regular basis.
Semi-related story: a close friend went in as a contractor to a company, and after she was hired the HR guy came to complain that her rate was twice what he’d pay an employee. He looked her in the eyes and said that. She looked right back and explained that she only worked on average 20-30 hours a week, AND she had to pay for her own healthcare, etc.
———————
http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Hi Guys!
Happy to be here, and yes I hope 2011 is a great one for all of us!!! I look forward to learning a lot this year from you guys, too.
Ron, I like the new changes and not just because sometimes I see my mug at the top ;-).
P
———————
http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
I had a potential client call us up before Christmas, and said he had a heckuva time getting our phone number. He found us off Vimeo. Just a datapoint, and your mileage may vary. But I’ve updated our phone number on our website, and I may possibly have us put the phone number on our reel. Maybe.
———————
http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
I’ll share what we typically do, just to add to the conversation.
Mostly, we try to do something small but fun for current, a few past, and a very few prospective clients. Nothing too fancy, this year it was a card plus custom M&M candies in a tin. Everybody likes candy, right?
Now, rarely, and only when a client is also a friend- which does occasionally happen- I will personally go out of my way to find them something they will really appreciate. For instance, a client took me out for scotch tasting after a very intense tv commercial job this summer. It was a lovely gesture, and so I wanted to repay that in kind. He got one nice- not insane, but nice- bottle of scotch.
That said, I would never do something like this if I didn’t know the guy, knew he’d appreciate it, that it wouldn’t violate any ethics, etc. And really, after he was so gracious with me, I’d have sprung for it even if he wasn’t a decent sized client this year. Gotta match class with class, you know?
Happy Merry Christmas, everybody!
———————
http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Todd, awesome tree!
Walter, fragile! It must be Italian!
———————
http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Right on, Bob. Couldn’t have said it better- and we loathe what we call ‘trustafarians’ over here. Man, you hit a nerve with me this morning!
I’m all for giving the next generation a leg up, but wouldn’t a better leg up be a respect for oneself/one’s industry and an understanding of how to run a business in the real world? Buying your kid a RED or whatever won’t make them a better artist, and it certainly won’t make them a better businessman. Those things take hard work.
There’s a company in our building that specializes in auctioning off the leftover REDs, Avids, and so forth that these trustafarians blow through, along with their inheritances. They’re doing pretty well. So it goes.
———————
http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -