Patrick Ortman
2
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
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The intelligent pricing bit also felt nice to read. Our industry is constantly evolving, and honestly sometimes a job that 10 years ago woulda been $100,000 really is only worth about $20K these days. I don’t mind that at all, it’s evolution. But if you don’t price your work to where you can pay your people, pay yourself, make a small profit, and put a little towards your continual education (and if you don’t do this last bit, you’re screwed!), then you’re a fool.
That said, I really don’t worry about competing with the “$300 TV Commercial” and “$200 website” guys in this world. Their work speaks for itself, and so does mine. Their clients are completely different animals than my clients. The thing is, and yes I’m speaking for everyone on the COW right now- we’re not merely technicians (although we all must have tremendous technical skills). We’re also problems solvers, and truly creative people. If all you do is hold a camera and press record, yeah, you’re in trouble. If you bring more to the table- as I believe we all do- then you’re gonna be OK. When you think you’ve “lost” a client to the “race to the bottom” guys, just remember that client was never really the right client for you. And that nobody wins a race to the bottom.
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PatrickOrtman, Inc.
Los Angeles Digital Agency and Video Production Company -
We don’t do reviews or spec work to land clients, because that’s beyond stupid. I bet most of you don’t, either.
Big advertising agencies don’t flinch at spec work, because they suck so much of the client’s money with their cut of media placements. What would their cut of $500M be, each year?
We’re a creative shop, our product is the work, not the vig. I think that’s pretty much how it is with everyone here, right? So it makes sense that, as creative shops, we’d get riled up when big old mean Sears devalues the creative work we do and make our livings doing. But again, we’re not big agencies- our businesses are set up on very different models (mostly, although Walter keeps alluding to/teasing about his special business model).
Every time I’ve been called in by a big ad agency to help with one of their pitches, I’ve been paid pretty well for my time and efforts. I’m pretty confident the As will make sure their interests are served, there’s some wicked smart people in those agencies. That said, it’s interesting watching so many old A people moving to open their own, more creatively-oriented, shops. If that continues, the old A model will indeed topple. Whether that’ll be a good thing or not, who knows.
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http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Economies of scale. The typical small post house probably doesn’t have dedicated staff and resources (really fat Internet pipes, a few dedicated machines, etc) to do this at the same price as DG. For us, we end up doing this a LOT. So, I have a MacMini setup just for transfers. But we still charge something, depending on file size, etc.
Isn’t it funny how this is one of the few businesses where there’s a question about charging clients for a service? My dentist charges a lot for X-Rays, even though they only take about 5 minutes and use up about $5 worth of materials per X-Ray.
Yet, we wonder about charging for our time and resources when transferring huge files, or making safety backups of footage and client files, or if we should even charge anything for rendering these beautiful things we make for our clients. It may be my cold speaking today, but this is insane and has to stop.
You’re in business to stay in business, and hopefully to make a profit. You have to somehow charge for overhead, like Internet, machine rooms, electricity, equipment & upgrades, etc. Constantly not charging for your overhead and services will put you out of business.
I know, we talk about this a lot. But we need to.
P
ps: $350-$450, depending on how much babysitting and setup you need to do, if it needs to be redone because it didn’t go through the first time, etc. Hope that helps.
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http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
David and I are like Butch and Sundance. But I’m hoping for a better ending.
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http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
>> I’d suggest that anytime a client demands that you expedite a service, especially such a behemoth as this one, you must put a price tag on it << Agreed. I'd try to explain why it's a bad idea, first. But if they insist, you deserve to be paid for it. --------------------- http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Oh, man! You rock 🙂
>> Not unlike an ambulance chasing attorney, when I see an ineffective local spot, thats who I call that day. I explain why and how they have wasted money (they really don’t know until somebody tells them) then explain what I can do to help them and how much it will cost. << And I really dig this approach- mind if I steal it? --------------------- http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
>>Some people are just too cheap and don’t care about anyone but themselves. I have worked for producers that ALWAYS cried poverty, and later found out they owned 2 homes, an airplane, 5 cars, etc etc, they lived very large by not paying me enough to live in a crap apartment.<< There's a lot of good stuff in this thread, as there is everytime the whole "what should I charge" thing is asked here. True story: I recently met a producer who was one of the guys who line produced an 80s TV show, shot and delivered for a shoestring, because he was told there just wasn't any money for more. At the end of the first season, he was still in a studio apartment, eating ramen noodles but the Exec producers, writers, and stars were all buying big Hollywood Hills houses and vacation getaway homes. I used to get all worked up when a potential client would tell me our rates are too high. Then I realized our rates are actually quite good for the area and what we do. In fact, they were too low! A lot of "producer" types habitually demand discounts and think they're not doing their job if they don't guilt you into dropping your pants on price. Some prodcos play that game, having hourly and day rates that are double what they need to make a profit, assuming that they'll be forced to give a half price deal. We don't play like that. For us, it took time, learning about your market, and, like everyone says, a familiarity with what you're bringing to the table, and a spreadsheet to set rates that are best for you and your clients. --------------------- http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
As someone who gets about 10-12 of these kinds of emails every week from prospective freelancers, I would not rely on a PDF to sell you. I’d make sure the email itself had the meat of what you’re selling (you!), and a call to action and link to your portfolio site. Sure, include the PDF if you want to, but don’t rely on it. I rarely click on PDFs, but I’ll read some text and click to watch a reel or something on the web.
I’m also of the opinion that it’s not so bad to have prospective clients asking you for your rates. I do believe that doing this gives you the opportunity to build a relationship with these prospects. Plus, unless you’re really specialized, there’s different rates for different types of jobs- for instance, my favorite sound guy in LA charges me one rate for a very small local TV spot, and another to a primetime cable network show that shall remain unnamed.
Patrick
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http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
I’m all in agreement about NDAs, I think that’s smart- we do some healthcare work, too, plus products about to be launched, etc. Not to mention private internal stuff like financials.
In my first post-college deal, I was told by the HR director at the company I was interviewing with that 1) yes, I’d have to sign a noncompete and 2) they knew that such documents were largely bogus.
With my company, I tend to agree with Grinner.
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http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Very cool, congrats and thanks for sharing- I “liked” it on FB :-).
Patrick
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http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design