Nick Griffin
Forum Replies Created
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Freaky! The first pass came out less than $2 under the rate at which I actually bill myself. While a good start, the truth of the matter when it comes to arriving at rates is a little more complicated.
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[Zane Barker] “I completely disagree on the music, for the reel.”
Okay, I completely disagree with Zane, completely agree with Rick and love the reel AND the music. It shows off Inspire Productions’ work and editing skills quite well. (And Jon, beautiful footage! If you guys are shooting stuff like this with in house talent you really have quite a shop for a market of your size.)
[Rick Dolishny] “The thing with ad agencies is they need to see you can do a little bit of everything, at least in my experience.”
Yes and no. Most agency people are like most normal people in business — they too often want to (and need to) see something very similar to what they want to do for it to sink in that you can do what they want. That’s why a reel like this is a good start, but should be supplemented with a longer form reel showing complete spots. If at all possible, put together a custom reel in response to what you learn in the sales process. “I realize, Mr. Creative Director, that your agency does a lot of real estate work, so I wanted to show you some examples of successful real estate projects we’ve produced.”
And speaking of sales, to grow you’re probably going to need to add salespeople/”producers” who can just keep knocking on doors, buying lunches and stay in close contact with the agencies you’re trying to crack. Sending out a reel to an agency in Charlotte is unlikely to make them very interested in using a production house in Wilmington. Several in person visits by a producer wanting to show the latest ideas, techniques and work is. People like to hire someone they know and frequently that’s accomplished by calling on your prospects in person over a long period of time before you get any business at all. It’s not easy and it won’t be cheap but it’s probably the best way to achieve your goals.
And that’s my… (Ka-ching) …two cents.
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Which is unfortunate because for many of us exporting for DVD approval copies is a key part of the pre-mastering process. Hopefully this will be added in one of the next .x releases.
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“Hi, I’m Nick,” I say standing up. “And I’m a video-holic.”
“Hi, Nick,” responds the crowded room.
“Once a year I do one of these for one of my trade association clients. It’s their annual “Hall of Fame” and we try to tell as much of a story as we can about the Hall of Fame recipient’s career and contributions to his industry. Our finished product is usually 6 to 7 minutes in length.”
“Ohh,” moans the crowd, starting to lose interest just seconds into the story.
But seriously, we do one of these, once a year, and it’s not the worst project of the year. But doing it properly requires a LOT of work — most of that on research and writing.
This particular Hall of Fame is co-sponsored by an industry trade magazine so every year it starts with what they’ve written about this guy over the past few decades. Two points: 1) having their magazine stories on which to do After Effects moves of the printed pages makes decent filler video for small segments of the voice-over (especially when we can strip in the actual photo versus the screened/printed photos printed in the magazine), and 2) the magazine’s editors are basically incapable of providing anything other than raw facts — video is not something they “get” because they have ZERO concept of words needing visual coverage.
Our next task is to get the full, conspiratorial cooperation of the guy’s wife, secretary or Admin. Assist., his staff, friends and so on. In a typical year we try to get hundreds of photos so we can pick 80 to 100 decent ones. This is critical because these are the people who know that the perfect historical photo is hanging on the wall leading into this guy’s conference room or that his state’s Governor is shown in the local newspaper story breaking ground in 1970 for his new factory. As the writers and producers we rely on these people to give us the basis of our video.
For our project we also occasionally will do talking head interviews. Some years the video segments provide the structure from which we use the animated stills as cut-aways. Other years we use the stills and the narrator to set-up the video clips. It all depends on what we’ve got. In one early video we used phone-patch recordings of two of the recipient’s friends while showing their titled still shots, news-style.
When all is said and done this annual Hall of Fame video is certainly nothing I would put on our reel, but it is ONE HELL of am improvement over what it was before we got the gig. The association’s previous “communications manager” (and I use the term loosely) had his local online editing facility take five or six still images and move them around the screen in a hardware-based DVE, over top of a wallpaper of the organization’s logo while the voiceover droned on for minutes at a time. It’s not too hard to be dramatically better than this.
Now, as to doing more of these than one a year? No thanks. I’m happy for the one we have but there’s no way I’d want to base a business on it.
Years ago a friend who was a cameraman/editor was hired by a local civic organization to create a “this is your life” video to salute a prominent businessman. The initial video turned out great but when he went to try and find other organizations and rich families who would want — and be willing to PAY — for something similar, he came up dry. Moral of the story is that this is the kind of thing people come to you wanting. Try to sell them on wanting it and you’re likely to hit a wall. Maybe the Funeral videos are the most reliable source of this kind of work. But, having done one of our “Hall of Fame” videos posthumously for a guy I knew and liked that’s not an area I have any interest in pursuing.
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[Randall Raymond] “Nick, Nick, Nick, Have a Merry Christmas!”
And to you, my friend.
And Merry Christmas, Happy Channukah, Joyous Kwanzaa and best wishes to the entire bovine community whatever your beliefs. You all are my co-workers and I am grateful that we have this communal water cooler at which to meet and exchange our thoughts.
Happy Holidays and Happy Holi-daze!
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[grinner hester] “Being middle aged and balding…”
Hey! I resemble that remark! Then again so do the overwhelming majority of my clients and that’s a tool that works for me. People hire people like them because they can relate to them, understand where they are coming from and where they are likely to go. We also get hired based on bringing a level of knowledge and competence to the table. The beard may be turning gray but there’s still a fire burning between the ears. Energy and attention are required and that can come across in middle age as well as youth.
[grinner hester] “Above all, have fun. This is something that can be sensed over the phone, man. If you guys are having a blast, people will gravitate to you. If it’s a job, there is a place down the road where they have fun.”
Grin, you really hit the nail on the head with this comment! In competitive markets and competitive situations fun can make all the difference. It also connotes a positive attitude. Who do you want to work with, the guy who says, “Oh… that could be a problem?” Or the guy who says, “Wow, that’s challenging, I love challenges, let’s see how we solve this.”
(And on a side note, Grinner, I hope your adventures are taking you new and interesting places, that you are continuing to rule your own world and that the new year will bring you nothing but happiness and success!)
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Please see my reply above.
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Randall, Randall, Randall. (Heavy sigh.)
Yes, I guess on further examination you have a point. Also, on further reading, perhaps I was mistaken to assume that these guys were high school students rather than college students. Hence I would be a lot more forgiving in judging the quality of their work. So Ryan – how old are you guys? Are you 16 year old high school sophomores or 26 year old grad students?
I have the impression that the rates quoted are just being floated in the hope that they will someday be able to charge these amounts. These kids are likely to run into quite a few grinders along the way and they’ll have to learn how to balance work quality against market price just as the rest of us have. And yes, $4,000 for a website of this nature does seem a bit out of alignment with the real world. But then if the same amount of coding and beneath the surface work were combined with $500’s worth of a decent Art Director’s time, it might be worth $4,000 — or more — to someone. Maybe. Your mileage may vary.
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[Ryan Mast] “Is it better to start at $90 and offer $75, or just set it at $75 (or lower)? What do you think is a fair wage?”
Your appearance of professionalism is enhanced by taking the position that the price is the price. If further sweetening is still needed to close the deal do so by throwing in freebies. For example on a wedding package, throw in 20 extra DVDs. Tell them that you’ve found this to be very popular with brides because that way every member of the wedding party can get one as can Aunt Martha in Iowa who was unable to attend.As to what to charge, please don’t take this as a dodge or wise ass comment, but the amount you charge should be as much as you can get without losing the business. Research what others in your area charge. Find out what they include and what the make ala carte. Use that knowledge to construct pricing that is appealing.
If I have to be blunt, the wedding stuff on your site does not appear — to ME, someone with zero knowledge of the wedding video market — to be of the level to justify the prices you are publishing. So keep doing more and work on getting prettier and more elegant imagery.
[Ryan Mast] ”
In addition to incorporating as an LLC, what else should we be getting? Liability insurance? Insurance for equipment? Do we need to get insurance to cover equipment we rent? We all work as subcontractors (1099’s), so does TIP need to get any kind of workman’s comp or insurance to cover the workers?”Students or not you MUST have liability insurance. Not sure how easy or hard that will be to get given your age(s), but even if it’s booked in the name of a parent not having it is playing with fire.
Yes, you should insure your own equipment and ESPECIALLY anything you rent, unless that coverage is explicitly spelled out in the rental agreement — making it redundant and therefore an avoidable expense.
I don’t know what coverage you need for your 1099 employees so make sure that’s something you ask the insurance agent about. I assume that’s all part of your “umbrella” liability policy.
One more point about insurance. If you’re going after corporate work you will likely run into situations where you have to present a certificate of insurance as PROOF that you are covered in case anything goes wrong. This seldom happens for talking head shoots but is an almost certainty for shoots taking place in factories and similar workplaces.
My friend Randall has responded below to my original post, so I’ll continue on other aspects of this conversation there.
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First of all – lighten up Raymond. I don’t know how honed your skill set was at 17 or 18, but for high school kids these guys appear to be well on their way. Yes the web design is just OK, but Ryan isn’t representing himself as a cutting edge Silicon Valley design firm.
That said, yes, you should simplify your website and if video is what you primarily want to sell it should be on your home page. It should also be able to speak for itself and not need a lot of ad copy. Also, and not to be overly blunt, are these your real prices or where you start out before you cut a deal? I’m not in your market but these prices seem a bit on the high side for students.
It’s been discussed here, but bears repeating, SEPARATE the consumer (wedding video biz) from the B2B (business) and ad spots part of your business. Different websites, a different name, a different entity. Business people could care less that you can handle weddings — in fact it really will give them the feeling that you’re not the right choice for them. Of course corporate video can be a very hard nut to crack because of the “Catch 22” of experience. You can’t get the gig because you don’t have the experience and you can’t get the experience because you can’t get the gig. So find somewhere to start, even if it means working cheap or for costs just to get something to put on your reel.
YMI could go on a reel showing that you know what you’re doing, but I wouldn’t lead with it and wouldn’t have it in its entirety.
As to commercial spots, that’s an even tougher door to open. You might find some cable advertisers looking for something new. Some of that may even lead to advertisers on local on-air broadcast outlets. Maybe. What you may not realize is that at the low end a lot of TV production is done free by the cable operator or station just to get the time buy. Very hard to compete with free, isn’t it? The low end, combined with your ages, is also a fairly strong magnet for grinders. OK, let’s just say that it’s a 99% probability that you’ll run into mostly grinders at the beginning. Be careful and be sure you collect deposits, not promises. Be prepared to WALK AWAY from these people no matter how good their bull sounds at the time.
In closing let me advise you that there’s only a small chance that what you’re doing now is what you’ll end up doing for a living. You could end up as the Exec Producer of the first Tri-Continental, all HD holographic, 15.1 surround sound, 100th year reunion of The Rolling Stones. Or you could be a doctor. The point is to learn as much as you can, explore as many options as are given and be sure to grow. Even if your career path takes you somewhere completely different from where you think you’re headed now, the more experience and skill you develop along the way the better off you’ll be.