[Neil Orman]

Sorry, and I DO understand what you said about the go-pros showing the different angles etc. Just checking how important it is to have a flatbed/pickup truck for that, as I’m trying to gauge if certain elements could be dispensed with to simplify this.
Thanks, Neil

[Neil Orman]

Mark, thank you SO MUCH for this great feedback and the WONDERFUL links!!! This is extremely helpful and very much appreciated!!! It’s fascinating to consider the different approaches. It seems like access to a spacious garage is pretty important for most of them. Just let me know if you or others disagree there. I’m about to talk to my client, and plan to ask him if has such a space available. I myself don’t have a garage. Just let me know if you or others have feedback there. And just to make sure I’m not misunderstanding one other point, how important do you consider access to a flatbed or pickup truck for the footage of the world/road passing by? Or is it just as good to hold the camera on a pillow, like one of these videos suggests, outside a normal car window? Then for the go-pro shots, I would just clip the camera on to his SUVs in the select spots.
Thank you so much again!!!
Neil

[Neil Orman]

Wow Mark, that response was like a FRIGGIN’ MASTERS CLASS! Thank you for another wonderful and detailed set of suggestions, for which I’m EXTREMELY GRATEFUL!

If I may I wanted to ask you about several parts of this:

‘I’d put blue screen material on the inside of the side and back windows. You’re going to add outside traffic shot from a pickup truck bed with 3 go-pros a night or two before this shoot.’ WHY ARE THREE GO-PROS NECESSARY HERE? Blue screen the front window when shooting POV from rear passenger seat to the driver. I prefer blue to green in this case due to spill color issues, and the blue chromakey may work in a dark nighttime shot where a green would be more easily spotted.

The interior of this thing is NOT as big/wide as a limo, so I’d choose a wide lens with a little bit of fish-eye WHAT’S THAT? to make the interior feel larger.

I’m going to shoot the front-facing rear seat shot first, from the front, looking back between the two front seats in a short slow zoom or dolly/slider shot of about a foot… and the setup is all about that. Front seats will be pressed forward to the limit, to make the rear compartment look bigger. THIS IS JUST GREAT, THANKS MARK!

What they wear inside will have a great influence on the lighting: an all-white suit and dress will bounce a lot of light around, and reflect on the glass, where a black suit and dress will suck up light and make it hard to define contours and shapes. Aim for something in-between, some autumnal colors would be nice against black leather, and maybe moderately shiny fabric can help. WONDERFUL, THANKS!!!

Blue screen the rear window with flat matte paper on the inside of the glass. Outside is easier but doesn’t treat interior reflections. Also have on hand several yards of the most useful yet undervalued tool in the world: flat black cloth. Cover the outside of the windows with the cloth if you lack chromakey materials. Cut a hole in the cloth for the lens to shoot at glass windows without leaving outside reflections. An adjustable polarizer on the lens is also important. Black cinefoil and black foam core are also good friends to have. HMMMMMMMM

I’d take the real driving footage from the pickup truck, and play it on a video projector, out of focus, shining it into the car from a window that’s out of shot, over the shoulder of the camera POV. I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED HERE. DID YOU MEAN PROJECT THIS FOOTAGE INTO THE CAR DURING THE SHOOT, OR SUPERIMPOSE THIS ON THE BLUE CHROMAKEY PORTIONS IN POST? SORRY. Alternately, some multicolored and white party bulbs on a stick could be waved past the window to cast the fleeting lights of passing storefronts, ads, headlights, street lighting, etc. Be sure the direction of the light sweep is correct based on travel direction and camera angle… don’t make a continuity error here. MY HEAD JUST SPUN COMPLETELY AROUND LIKE LINDA BLAIR, BUT GREAT STUFF. I’M NOT SURE I’LL BE ABLE TO BRING THE CREW AND LOGISTICS TOGETHER FOR SOME OF THIS, BUT YOU’VE INSPIRED ME TO MOVE A LOT FARTHER IN THIS DIRECTION.

For a base light, the LED panel, practically sitting on the male passenger’s knees, with a lot of diffusion on it, and the adjustable output dialed down to a very low setting. What still photogs call a “butterfly or book setup”. A reflector card clipped to the ceiling bounces that lap light to fill the front of the face. Angle of the lap light will need to be adjusted. If there’s room between the seats, the lap light can go there. You will set an f-stop and scope levels for the faces, lock the iris, then adjust lighting until the shot looks good. Tube lighting vertically on the front door pillars or the front headrests with diffusion and “squeezers” to adjust levels. JUST GREAT, THANKS SO MUCH MARK!!

A stagehand or two will ever so very gently bounce the car bumpers up and down, randomly. Make it subtle: you don’t want to slosh their drinks or whatever, and the car is supposed to have a fancy suspension. WOW.

The newbie mistake to make when shooting people with dark skin is to throw additional light on them. What you want instead is to shine a light that glances off the skin, revealing texture and dimension with highlights and darker shaded areas revealing contour. You also want the light to penetrate the outer skin layers and bounce back out. You can try a gold or silver foil reflector card on the window side and bounce light to the face from the foil. TERRIFIC.

A shot from outside the “moving” car, window up, passenger staring up and out at the city: Shoot this with a large black “tent” of cloth enclosing the window and camera lens. Add the go-pro footage as a reflection layer at low opacity with some blur, afterward, and you can control the opacity of the window, almost like doing a rack-focus shot, to convey security within, adventures outside. Same deal on the front windshield outside on the hood shot. Don’t forget to flip the reflected background when you composite it. MY HEAD SMOKING A LITTLE ON THIS ONE TOO, AS THIS IS SO FAR BEYOND ANYTHING I’VE DONE BEFORE.

Use one of the go pros with a macro lens and do some close up “flying” shots over interior details of the car: nice upholstery, wood paneling, etc. to inter-cut later. A tracking shot of an arm on the armrest, perhaps wearing an expensive watch and cuff links…? CU Shot of woman’s calves and her expensive designer shoe, “stepping into security and luxury”….? And the door closes on the shot as a cut or wipe, with a solid thunk sound effect of the armored door. You’re showing images and using sound to convey the message, not just words. FANTASTIC.

You may have to remove a side door to get lighting and camera into the profile shot area… this is not usually so hard to do, if you check the manuals first. You’ll have to disconnect an electrical harness and the hinge pins. Maybe bring an auto body guy with tools for this. GURGLING SOUNDS.

Put the go-pro wide angle cam on a short stalk clamped to the front bumper, low-angle, about three feet ahead of the bumper. Drive on a controlled non-traffic area like a parking lot or airport taxiway. JUST GREAT, THANKS MARK!

ULTIMATELY, I LOVE EVERY ONE OF THESE SUGGESTIONS. I PLAN ON EXECUTING EVERY ONE OF THESE I CAN, ALTHOUGH I’M NOT SURE HOW MANY I’LL BE ABLE TO DO OF THE ONES INVOLVING BLUE-SCREENS, MULTIPLE CREW MEMBERS, REMOVING DOORS ETC GIVEN THE DEMANDS OF MY DAD JOB AND OTHER PROJECTS. I PLAN TO BRING ON AT LEAST ONE PRODUCTION ASSISTANT. BUT I’M CERTAINLY GOING TO TRY TO DO AS MUCH OF THIS I CAN. I’VE GOT ABOUT 3 WEEKS BEFORE THE SHOOT, AND I’LL KEEP IN TOUCH ON WHAT HAPPENS HERE, AND THE END RESULT. I AM EXTREMELY GRATEFUL FOR ALL OF THIS, MARK. VERY MUCH APPRECIATED AGAIN!!

[Neil Orman]

Also I checked with the local rental house about available battery-powered LED lights, and they have Lite Panel 1×1 Astra lights and Lite Panel MiniPlus Brick lights. Any brief take from anyone on those lights and how they’d work for something like this?
Thanks, Neil

[Neil Orman]

Thanks very much for these insights, Bill. And just to answer your question here, I don’t believe these SUVs have sunroofs or skylights, and I’ll verify that with the client. In case it’s useful to you or others to see the VERY dark interior with with which I’m working, I attached a picture. Let me know if seeing this affects advice on how to light the interior to capture the couple in the backseat. Heightening this challenge my client wants to use an African-American actor for the male in the couple, which to me might not be the best choice given how dark it is already. But let me know if anyone has thoughts there.
Much appreciated,
Neil

[Neil Orman]

Wow Mark, I really appreciate your great and detailed suggestions here!! This is an enormous help and I’m grateful!! I will certainly take your advice here on planning and storyboarding every shot, to determine the lighting needs.

The moving car issue is one with which I’ve been concerned, but you’ve really highlighted why it needs a lot of planning. Looking at the options, I wonder if I’ll be able to access a studio environment, or grapple with the technical complexity of things like greenscreening and rotoscoped composites (although I’ll certainly research that option!). I was especially intrigued by the idea of towing the vehicle, as I expect one of their SUVs might be able to tow the one in which we were shooting.

A special thanks for your great ideas on shots for the video. I especially liked the idea of ‘inter-cutting between detailed go-pro-shots around the wheels and bumpers of the car in traffic [and see the SUV] handle a bump or pothole, as we cut inside to that shot of the couple, not feeling a thing.’ I’ve actually never shot with a go-pro before and this seems like a great opportunity, and your story idea there is great.

Just let me know if there is further feedback from anyone. Some of the things I’ll be researching are the moving car issue you highlighted, and those potential go-pro shots.

Thanks again Mark!!!

[Neil Orman]

Thank you very much, Bill, Mark and Nick for your responses!

Bill: This is for a promotional video on an armored transportation service used by foreign visitors like diplomats who need extra protection. It’s supposed to illuminate an attractive couple’s experience as passengers in the SUV, which is as luxurious as it is secure, and also highlight the fit, security-minded driver, who will pick them up on an airstrip and take them to an embassy. So I’m trying to illuminate the back seat, where they’ll be be doing things like watching TV, drinking champagne (is that illegal in a moving car?), and show the driver too. For all three actors, I plan to show both their faces and the car’s luxurious interior – I’m kind of at a loss as to what to show there, other than the TV screen! – and I hope to shoot it from at least a few angles. Let me know if anyone has experience with this type of thing. By the way Bill, I understood your whole response except one portion, where you wrote:
‘Might be best to get some small but strong LEDs and lots of white (interior active bounce) and black (exterior cutters if you need to shoot this outside) foam-core and try an all interior bounce approach. ‘
I know what bounce is, and foam-core, but wasn’t dead sure what you meant here. I think you meant using only bounce to illuminate the actors – is that right? Also, for what would the black foam core be used?

Mark: I was thinking the car would be in motion, unless it would be easier to somehow fake that? And if so I’m wondering how that would be done? I know they do it in movies and TV all the time, or at least they used to.

Nick: Thank for your helpful response as well!

The long and the short of it is, I haven’t done much of this kind of lighting and could use any advice, particularly on the car interior stuff, but really how to effectively light something like this as a one-man-band. In addition to the car interior scene, there is the scene where the driver picks up the couple on the airstrip, and the one where they enter the ambassy. Is it foolhardy to go without a crew of any kind? Do I need some kind of big rig to ensure good, even light on the actors?

Almost my entire lighting experience is video interviews! So I’m certainly open to bringing on a crew person if necessary.

Thanks again,
Neil

[Neil Orman]

They weren’t right for that really dense mess of cables, but they’re other sections of the desk where we’re still planning to use them. Just so you know it wasn’t my boss, who didn’t care either way about those original shelves/trays and actually helped me install the wire shelf, but the operations lady in our office, who wasn’t insisting I use those pieces but isn’t a fan obviously of expenses that accomplish little to nothing. Those shelves/trays were $144, the shelf I ended up using was $15. Just for the record, this came about because our contract interior designer guy happened to swing my my office one day, looked at the cable mess for all of two seconds, and said he had a perfect solution, which would cost like $100. I had planned to handle it myself, as I know the organization wasn’t interested in more expenses etc after redoing the office. But since he offered I certainly said yes. Weeks later he mailed two two shelves/trays, one of which was bent. In every case that’s been the kind of hands-off, poorly thought out ‘help’ he’s offered. I’m sure these shelves/trays are perfect for a standard office with a computer, printer etc., but I personally think he should have seen they weren’t right for something like this.

Probably too much information, but just so you know! Thanks so much again Mark, Alan, Thomas and Bill.

Neil

[Neil Orman]

Hi guys, I just wanted to share a pic of the final solution we used for this. It’s just a four-foot piece of wire shelving from Home Depot. Worked very well. Thanks so much again for your helpful responses and feedback on this!
Very much appreciated,
Neil

[Neil Orman]

Just one last question on this, to which I’d be grateful for any quick feedback. There was another cable management product I’d received before I even started this thread, from my employer’s interior designer contractor (see pic below) that didn’t seem like a good solution for this problem. We received two of these that are about 3 feet long each. Honestly he took a very quick look at of the cable mess you saw in the photos I attached to this thread, and said he had a solution, and sent us those products, for which we’re apparently being charged $144. Can I get people’s take on whether you think these are a good solution to the mess you saw in my earlier photos? The main reason I’m asking is, the way my company works, I’m likely to get flak for not using these things. Again one of the big goals here is not undoing these huge coils of cables, which among other things these seem to be a bad solution for.

And thanks very much for your thoughts, Bill. I definitely see what you mean about getting the furniture away from the wall.