Marvin Holdman
Forum Replies Created
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Very valid points. Where a lot of folks are looking today is alternatives to Mac Pro’s. I have long abhorred dealing with PC’s due to questionable OS’s and horrid support. Given the level of satisfaction that I hear from many Win7 users and users of configured boxes (like HP and Dell) I think it would be, at the very least, worth the time to consider them. What makes it a hard decision is the fact that no matter where Apple’s hardware is going, anything purchased today will likely get you at least 2-3 years of solid service. More than enough time to see how it all shakes out. Yeah, we’re trying to make the same decision at the moment. Either way you go, you’ll be replacing it in a few years anyway.
At the end of the day, it is clearly apparent that if you are in a form of this business that deals with a wide variety of media (such as projects from freelancers) you really need a mix of both hardware and software. If you’re a small shop that mostly just provides finished deliverables, less of a concern.
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv -
Hah! Guess I brought that reference out too soon! Oh well, it was an inevitable digression.
Astute observation, sir!
🙂
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv -
Is this really as big a problem as people are making out, I wonder?
Is it prohibitive from learning? No. Will it be discriminatory when that youngster walks into an edit shop for a job and has to be told what a sequence is? Probably.
Much as I cringe when someone comes to me and tells me they “filmed a video” because the results, by and large, are predictable, I fear the same stigma will be there for FCPX. How will that affect a new editor? Someone who might be a bit insecure about their craft? I suspect it will re-enforce their doubt. Remove the confidence to reach out with their craft.
Have anything to do with their ability to edit? Probably not. Integrating into a shared environment? Going to make it a bit tougher.
Frankly, I think this will be divisive software, much as iMovie is in a professional environment. It may be used incidentally, but for any work with depth it is not useful. Because of that, most don’t really include their experience with iMovie in their resume. It speaks to naivete.
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv -
Interesting aspect discussed in those podcast is the fact that those new editors will have to start off learning descriptions of the processes that are COMPLETELY different than current industry standards. It is a very valid point to say that someone with only FCPX experience is going to be confused when they hear the words timeline, project and sequence, as they are used fairly globally now.
Perhaps FCPX is going to be a major contributor to confusion for those reaching out to a broader professional market?
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv -
Apple is only predicting what they think “Pro” means. The only one that will define what “Pro” means is the industry. Only time will tell. At this point, it would seem they’ve stolen a page from the Joseph Goebbels playbook… “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”
It is a lie to say that this program, in it’s current form, is “Pro”. What it may become is something very different than what it is… right now. Selling it as a “Pro” app, is a lie.
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv -
Jerry, I see that you are a trainer. I would expect no less from someone who anticipates doing business by training folks on this package. I think you’re business will do well, as there is going to be a rush of new folks that believe all there is to doing video is buying the right stuff. It sounds as though you’ve been around long enough to know a fair amount about this business. Sounds like you were here when DV came on. You’ll remember the inordinate amount of garbage that came from all of that DV proliferation (garbage that I’ve spent a fair amount of time fixing). I don’t begrudge you for waving the pom-pom’s over this program, but will point out to anyone else who’s read this far that Jerry is selectively telling you what parts are the “fastest”. It is NOT faster to create a DVD from this program. It is NOT faster to work with several formats (such as XDCAM) which requires re-wrapping prior to use. It is NOT faster to archive your projects once complete. It is NOT faster to learn if you are coming from the most common editing applications (unless you know iMovie). It is NOT faster to share between multiple users on multiple machines.
In the bigger picture, I would agree that the future of video communication does look bright. The bones of this application are great, but the interface and architecture were never meant to be used by more than one person at one machine. While it may be that this business will be more and more about individual’s working independently, I prefer to work with others in a team environment. This is not the tool for that, and I’m not really sure it ever will be. Most consumers don’t need this type of collaborative environment (many professionals don’t either). Fact of the matter is, only so much can ever be accomplished by individuals. The greater gestalt that is accomplished by a team working together is, to me, the pinnacle of video communication.
In the end, I do respect your opinion, question your motivation and point out that yours, like mine, is merely an opinion. If you think it’s faster, great. It’s not faster for me when I look at the rest of the process of creating a video product.
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv -
[Marvin Holdman] “Will this ever be able to be used the way FCP7 was?”
[Andrew Richards] – If you’re asking if FCPX will abandon the Magnetic Timeline and the unified window, then no. If you’re asking if FCPX will ever be used to cut major episodic TV, a studio feature, or a marquis national ad campaign, I’d say yes it will. Apple would have to cease all development and never add another feature to FCPX to keep it from one day soon being used to do those types of things.
No, I’m really wondering if it will ever be the main “go to” program for the majority of editing done at my facility. Juries way out on that one. Will someone produce a movie with it? Sure. Doesn’t mean it will be practical to deploy it in the same way FCP7 was deployed nationwide on June 20th.
[Marvin Holdman] “What type of user base is this going to create?”
[Andrew Richards] – A much bigger one.
Bigger is not always better. I am wondering what I am going to have showing up on my doorstep to fix a year from now and how much of it is going to be coming from FCPX. We don’t get very many iMovie projects showing up, and I’m glad, but this thing is going escalate the quantity of sows ears coming at a broadcast entity. Yeah, I know, you run what the client pays for, but unfortunately the worse the products get, the more diluted your overall product impact becomes. While I think it’s true that traditional broadcasting models are being diminished with all the new media, I think the credibility of all of this new media is only really going to be defined by the standards it imposes on itself. Of course, with everyone and their cousin producing garbage and airing it in these emerging markets, it’s not going to be overly hard to rise above. As I’ve said before, judicious and tactful use of the word “no” will be the key to the successful.
[Marvin Holdman] “What specific things am I now looking for to define what type of company Apple will become?”
[Andrew Richards] – Look for Apple to do more and more to tie their various product lines together in ways that make it compelling to own multiple Apple products per user. iCloud is a step in that direction.
Doesn’t really seem like there is a need for distributed multi-core processing in that scenario. Perhaps Mac Pro’s will go away and we’ll end up with a pay-as-you go render farm in the cloud? Don’t know for sure, but this trend of nicking CC’d for processing is an experiment that won’t take long for most to realize that if you do ANY volume of work, you’re better off owning the hardware you are using. Apple’s move towards less powerful machines with dumbed down software seems to indicate that they are moving in the “everything to the cloud” approach. Just not sure it will work in “professional” scenario’s. That said, I am certain that it will be incorporated into those businesses, just curious as to how. Only time will tell.
[Marvin Holdman] “Sadly, this removes one of the main reason’s that I’ve always loved their product; the fact that the hardware, OS and application are built by one company. That was the strongest persuasion that any mid-level manager had in making a case for this company.”
[Andrew Richards] – I’ve felt the same way, but if you look back at all the times QuickTime updates unrelated to FCP broke FCP, how often OS X updates broke QuickTIme and/or FCP, you see there never really was that single-vendor benefit for FCP. But it was a nice canard for convincing the uninitiated upper management that might otherwise only listen to market share figures when picking technology solutions. Now those uninitiated upper managers might take some convincing to believe that FCPX isn’t the best way to go! Being out of touch is a side effect of getting paid the big bucks.
Hah! Completely agree with the being out of touch statement. Guess it’s what has me so miffed. I’ve already had a brief conversation with an executive who is “excited” about this software because some fluff piece in a business magazine said it was cheaper, faster and better than previous iterations. Frankly, after looking more and more at it, I don’t think it is cheaper, faster or better. Add in all the plug-ins that we’ll inevitably have to buy and it won’t be cheaper, the extra burden of managing over a network in cross party databases and it won’t be faster and it certainly lacks the control over the edit to be better.
[Marvin Holdman] ” I used to give a sigh of relief when a prospect told me their primary platform was Apple. Soon, I’m afraid, I will cringe when I hear this.”
[Andrew Richards] – I think conflating OS X into this FCPX imbroglio is a mistake. A few creatives might switch to Windows over this, but I don’t see any reason to believe there will be any mass exodus from OS X among the creative pros who use it today. Again, Media Composer, Adobe CS, Smoke, and Resolve all have a home on OS X. Now, if they turn the Mac Pro on its ear later this year by removing all PCI slots in favor of Thunderbolt before Thunderbolt has a critical mass of equipment on the market, that might be another story…
Given the fact that most of the vendors of professional software for the Mac Pro platform have been feeling the same “bitch slap” that Apple handed out on the 21st (are the API’s released yet???) I think the exodus might be a bit broader than Apple imagines. We will never hear the loud opinions from these vendors, as it is just poor business to speak out on such matters. But I can tell you that there is a real feeling of abandonment on not just their part, but some of the Apple Authorized folks out there. These are the people that support the professional base and if they’re saying, “we don’t know which way this thing is going” then I suggest you listen. I’ve never heard that before. Let me say that again, I have NEVER heard the level of discontent and bewilderment from the people who support the “professional” market. At this point, if you are not at least at least as much time exploring platform alternatives as you are playing with Randy’s new toy, you are going to find yourself in real trouble soon.
As for conflating OSX into this FCPX imbroglio goes, I suggest that these are both so inter-related that you cannot possibly consider the impact that this is going to have until after seeing the full implication of this new OS. It’s one of the reason’s I’m sticking around. Both speak to the direction this company is taking. Without some sort of public discourse provided by the company, it’s the only way we have of knowing which way the wind blows. Most hard core creatives are not really even aware of all of this. They will simply wake up one day and find that companies like MC, Adobe, Smoke and Resolve have discontinued support for Apple products. All it’s going to take is one company that does even a half-way decent job of building and supporting the hardware. Believe me, Dell and HP are watching this thing closely. They too have had some pretty crappy reputation problems, but they have also made some efforts to fix them. I still love Apple support, but they are coming on strong.
I do appreciate the candor relating to this, but honestly the questions that I’m posting are mostly rhetorical at this point. I’ve been reading for a while now and firmly believe the answers anyone has for these questions at the moment are merely opinion and not fact. No matter how passionately they are answered. That being said, I really do appreciate and need the insights of those opinions. Thank you for taking the time to respond in a pleasant helpful manner, Andy.
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv -
I would only add this…
Our good friend Chris is in the business of renting gear to the hoards of new users who will be introduced to video through FCPX. Of course he’s a cheerleader for it. I’ve seen it many times over the years. The whole “you don’t need years of experience to do this work”. Of course, they leave out one word from the end of that statement…. “well”.
In any case, I am certain that the more talented among this new group will excel and probably turn into wonderful, skilled craftsmen. But the fact remains, that the vast majority will realize that doing this work well requires skill, patience and time and quickly move on. TV is much fun to dabble in. I love it when people do just that.
In the meantime, Chris will take their money, assure them the luddites are crazy and turn them loose. In the end, more stuff will get produced, and more quality stuff will be demanded. I can certainly see his motivation for support, his condescension is just a personality thing, I would guess.
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv -
I will add one aspect of the “complaining” that is useful….
Someone, like the fellow from a government facility that I talked too the other day, who happens upon this forum and doesn’t know the shortcomings of this program, and the ramifications of trying to install it in a shared, multi-user environment, incorporate it into external data systems and deal with their old projects NEEDS to hear someone say… “it sucks for that”.
Apple sure hasn’t done very much at all to explain this “new” paradigm, or how to integrate it. Wonder if we’ll EVER see a white paper on that? There needs to be more than just cheerleaders on this forum for folks that honestly need to know such things. Besides…. I DON”T post to the “techniques” forum. Read it, just don’t post this sort of message their. Where would you propose someone post how this dung heap works in an existing professional environment?
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv -
Craig, there are still some of us real diehards who are hanging out to see what happens. I really, really, really, really want this piece of crap software to work. Foolish, perhaps, but I think it still has a little hope. In the meantime, I know you didn’t put the screws to a great many professionals on the 21st, but understand that bitterness is not going away. This whole “Ya’ll don’t like our new toy, you can just leave” is not going to happen. Apple drove a wedge between users. I appreciate your input when it’s related to technical facts regarding the release, but tell me you don’t see how your comment can be construed as dismissive?
Besides…. I’ve grown quite fond of Aindreas post. Frankly, it will always be a part of this NEW culture that FCPX has decided to unleash. Deal with it.
Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username – vidmarv