Marco Solorio
Forum Replies Created
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I just performed a basic test:
I made an FCP7 sequence at 720p60 and another sequence at 720p30.
Each sequence had one clip at 720p60, 720p30, and 1080p24. The same exact clips/cuts for both sequences. Simple.
I exported both sequences out of FCP7 as AAF with Automatic Duck using the respective format settings for each sequence.
Imported both AAF sequences into Symphony.In short, anything in the sequence not native (frame-rate wise) gets *conformed* to the project frame-rate, not their inherent frame-rate, making any of those non-native clips totally unusable.
Personally, I don’t know how anyone is using AAF export with success on large projects. We work in multiple formats on just about every project, whether it’s from different camera sources or stock footage. I’m not asking for plugin compatibility or even transition compatibility… all I need is for the source footage to maintain their original frame-rate, which seems like AAF export 101. I can’t believe this hasn’t been brought up before. Surely we’re not the first outfit to edit multiple frame-rates in a sequence and need to export that out as an AAF to Avid.
Almost seems an ancient EDL might work out better. That’s my next attempt.
Sigh.
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch
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Alright, I went to the root of the problem, got rid of the real-time 2:3 pulldown requirement and figured out why my client LED display wouldn’t understand native 24p video. Turned out that the AJA Hi5 was the culprit because for some reason, AJA did not implement 23.976pfs into its design. So weird. so as mentioned in my last post, I bought the BMD converter and my intuition was right. My 55″ LED client display now understands native 24p because the BMD converter can use all three 24p variants. All my monitors now function under all formats I throw at them. “Welcome to 2004.”
I decided to make a quick blog post about it:
https://www.onerivermedia.com/blog/?p=581
Cheers!
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch
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The same location you’re describing to change the hardware settings tool (under the “Tools” menu) is the same for me changing the AJA Kona settings. Unfortunately, I cannot change the main output to either P or PsF (the second output might, but I wont know until Monday).
In the interim, I’ve found some interesting info. There’s a chance my AJA Hi5 SDI to HDMI converter might actually be the problem in the link. I was under the impression that it supported both 24P and 24PsF. It apparently does not (only 24P and 23.976P, but not 23.976PsF). However, the competing Blackmagic SDI to HDMI converter does support 23.976PsF (but not 24P and 23.976P). Weird. At any rate, I’ve ordered the BMD converter and will be in my hands on Tuesday. For $295, I’m willing to take the risk to see if this will solve the 24p problem for the client display.
I’d actually prefer this method anyway since I’d stay native 24p monitoring and wouldn’t have to add RT pulldown insertion to the output. Crossing my fingers. Apparently the BMD converter is working on many “24p capable” client displays in this exact type of scenario with MC/Symphony, so I’m hopeful.
Oh the joy.
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch
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Hi Job, thanks for the reply. I’m actually not able to change anything on the output. If I create a 1080p24 sequence, I do not have an option to change it to either 24p or 24PfS. My guess is that since you have Nitris DX in the mix of things, that it allows you to unlock output to both it and your Decklink, but this is just an assumption on my part.
Where are you able to change it from 24p to 24PfS? In Avid or in your Decklink control panel? For me in my AJA control panel, there is nowhere to change it (grayed out pulldown). The AJA control panel does have a selectable secondary output (for HD-SDI output #2) that I can down-convert to, but I don’t think it can cross-convert in the same HD resolution (will check when I go back to the studio).
I did email John Abt at AJA last night about the FS1 and he mentioned the AJA UDC might work instead (small converter with FS1 technology but at a much lower cost) to perform the RT pulldown. Street price looks around $700 (much better than $3500 for the FS1 doing the same task!). He’s confirming with his peeps to see if what I’m asking to do will work.
Thanks!
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch
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Yeah, and after I submitted my last post, I realized that I’m guessing the Nitris hardware also doesn’t/wont support Smoke 2013 like my Kona can. Aside from wanting real-time 2:3 pulldown insertion, I’d really like to have LTC output as well, both of which are obviously not possible with Kona. But those are minimal compared to everything else I get with my Kona hardware.
I just don’t understand why Avid doesn’t support Nitris with other software hosts, especially since it’s really just AJA hardware anyway. Truly desert island syndrome.
But alas, I’ll have to swap out my client 55″ LED monitor in the edit suite (luckily my PVM-20L5 still works!). I thought the 55″ LED in my conference room would work to replace it (their lit says it supports 24p) but after running a long SDI cable from the machine room and into it (with an AJA HI5 HD-SDI to HDMI adapter) from the Kona output from a 24p timeline, it didn’t understand the native 24p source and gave a blank screen (despite what their lit says, I think they’re saying it does 24p from a 60i source with RT Inverse telecine… misleading).
So I’m back to square one. Either I get a new 55″ (or larger) client display that supports true 24p (while weeding through misleading product lit), or I get a conversion box that does real-time 2:3 pulldown insertion. I think the AJA FS1 does it, but that’s $3500 and that’s tough to swallow when only used for just one function (especially since it existed for us in FCP for years!). Doing the research now on potential black boxes. Oh the fun on a Friday night!
Cheers!
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch
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Yeah, bummer. I’d go Nitris hardware, but the Kona hardware concurrently allows me to still work in legacy FCP7 edits, and After Effects projects. It looks like Nitris is still kind of a desert island in that regard for AE, unless I missed something.
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch
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Interestingly enough however, it looks like the real-time down convert to SD actually does insert 2:3 pulldown. Not that it helps my situation any since everything is HD these days, but interesting nonetheless. Looks like we have another LED flatscreen here at the facility that does play native 24p, so we’ll probably just do a swap. Still, a pain, but at least we can make this work in the end.
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch
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Well this is a blow. I know Avid kept some of the features for themselves (like LTC output and such) to be used with their own hardware (which ironically is AJA hardware, LOL), but I had no idea they didn’t allow the Kona cards to do something they’ve always already been able to do. Last thing I want to do is buy something like an Evertz box to do this. Hmmmm, might just replace the LED flatscreen with one that supports native 24p. Thanks Shane. I appreciate the feedback.
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch
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LOL, I thought the 2-day shipping was a good proof-of-point!
Unfortunately I’m not in the know with this particular product. So I don’t know what the road map is with the 7D. We’d love one for our 7D as well! They’d make a killing on that. I can’t imagine R&D would be anything huge since the groundwork has been made on the larger sized 5D product. My guess? Maybe a couple of months or so? But only a guess. They’d be fools to not release a 7D version… easy money!
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch
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Thanks for posting the link to our blog post, Jeremy. I’m in no way a paid endorser of this product (I paid for it full up with 2-day shipping!), but I cannot stress the value of how well it works.
I hear often (like in one of the posts in this thread) that a certain limitation of its use (like keeping focus on a zoom-through) is a “deal breaker” to some. I like to think of the VAF-5D2 as an optical filter you’d put at the end of your lens. Just because you can’t use a circular polarizer on every shot, does that make it’s a deal breaker? Or an ND grad filter? That a deal breaker too? I’ve got many Panavision-sized mattebox filters that do one specific task that cost as much or more as the VAF-5D2, and are hardly used on a production-to-production basis. The VAF-5D2 takes seconds to remove, and even quicker to install. So why not just use it on the shots that are best suited for it? Personally, I’ll see using this device with about 90% of my shooting. Quite honestly, I can’t see owning a 5D Mk II without one. It’s now as much a part of my rigging as my Singh Ray Vari ND (not always used, but wouldn’t leave home without it).
To the one comment on possibly still seeing some aliasing on the second test, I can’t stress enough to view it at full 1080 HD. And I have to say, on our CRT/LED monitors at ProRes encoding, the image is clean. I dare say any traditional video camera at 1080 HD be any cleaner at that alias test stress level?
Thanks!
Marco Solorio | CreativeCow Host | OneRiver Media | ORM Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Media Batch