[Kell Hymer]

[John Rofrano] “I would go for the Radeon R9 290x”

I recently upgraded my CPU from an i7 3820 to an i7 4930K. In light of the discussions in these forums about the AMD R9-290 series, I also pulled the trigger on the XFX R9-290X 8GB model. 8GB is overkill for Vegas, but I wanted the extra headroom to run 3 monitors from the card and to dive into 3D applications. I wanted to know how much better it would perform when compared to the CPU, my NVIDIA GTX 460, or my NVIDIA Quadro 4000. I ran a series of rendering benchmarks using the Sony Vegas Red Car project and codecs that I frequently use. However, I am more concerned about real-time preview performance. To test this, I ran FPS tests by setting my preview window to maximum settings. I hope this information is helpful for others.

Current System: Intel i7 4930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | 32GB RAM | AMD R9-290X w/8GB RAM | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)
Overclocking Note: CPU OC’d to 4.339 GHz During CPU and NVIDIA GPU Renders. CPU OC’d to 4.608GHz for R9-290X Renders. A more accurate test would maintain a constant CPU speed but the 4.339GHz OC Failed After AMD GPU Installation.
GPU Drivers Employed: Quadro Driver 341.05 | GTX Driver 344.75 | Radeon Driver 14.501.1003.0
Software: Sony Vegas Pro Version 12, Build 770

Render Benchmarks

Screenshot #1

Screenshot #2

The R9-290X significantly improved rendering times. I also noted that setting the dynamic RAM preview to 0 significantly lengthens the render time. However, no improvement is gained by increasing the allocated RAM amount once it is above zero (5MB in these tests).

Preview Frame Rate Benchmarks

Note: Sony’s Red Car project is split into 7 regions. I notated the minimum and maximum frame rate observed during each region. The values observed are relatively accurate, give or take a frame. This is because the fps indicator fluctuated rapidly, making it difficult to notate.

Note: As I was able to attain fairly high frame rates, I did not test the R9-290X here. To test the new GPU, I modified Sony’s Red Car project by adding the below effects to the project (Kelken Version below):

During the course of the testing I changed the following setting and found it had no impact on frame rates:

Additionally, I found that the fps increased with subsequent playbacks/previews. It appears that it is loaded into the dynamic RAM in this process.

Conclusion:

The R9-290X drastically improved performance and is far more stable than the GTX or the Quadro cards. I am very happy with the upgrade!

Current System: Intel i7 4930K OC’d to 4.6 GHz| Asus P9X79 Deluxe | 32GB RAM | AMD R9-290X w/8GB RAM | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)

[Kell Hymer]

I emailed Sony and they confirmed that they use OpenCL 1.2 and 2.0. However, they did not provide details about the specifics of the OpenCL support and if the shared GPU/CPU memory makes a significant performance difference when using an OpenCL 2.0 GPU.

On a side note, the following article does a good job in explaining the difference between a professional GPU and a gaming GPU. I am posting here so others have access to it should they have questions.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-Professional-GPU-Acceleration-502/

Current System: Intel i7 4930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)

[Kell Hymer]

[John Rofrano] “If I were you, I would use GoPro Studio to convert the GoPro footage to CineForm Digital Intermediary format. There will be no quality loss and playback will be very smooth”

As an amateur editor, I decided to look this up along with “transcoding” and “intermediate codecs”. Wow! My mind is blown! So if I understand correctly, the GoPro is recording in a highly compressed H.264 format. The compression must be intense as Quicktime can’t even playback the 1080 60fps files without dropping frames. This confirms the online reports of various software not being able to playback GoPro footage. In-fact, GoPro’s website highly recommends using GoPro Studio to convert to CineForm before using the content in other NLEs.

So, converting to CineForm will decompress the video into a much larger, but more manageable file as far as editing is concerned. I read that it literally copies the reference GOP and places it back into the video where it was once removed for compression by the GoPro camera. This way Vegas does not have to reference the original GOP on top of adding effects and other edits. This is why transcoding is lossless. Wow! This is awesome stuff! The tech side of video editing is just as intriguing as the creative side of the work.

Current System: Intel i7 4930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)

[Kell Hymer]

Anyone familiar with OpenCL 2.0? Most gamer GPUs seem to support up to OpenCL 1.2, not OpenCL 2.0. I assume Vegas uses OpenCL 1.2?

In another thread I asked for advice on GPUs. We discussed that the AMD R9 series gaming cards are my best choice and that the FirePro and Quadro cards are designed more for 3D application than NLE work. I do notice though that the FirePro supports OpenCL 2.0 while the R9 gaming cards do not. I am almost certain that Vegas does not use OpenCL 2.0 but when/if they do, it looks like it would be a huge improvement. The following link explains that OpenCL 2.0 allows the CPU and GPU to reference the same memory, improving performance:

https://www.cnet.com/news/opencl-2-0-brings-new-graphics-chip-power-to-software/

AMD has beta drivers for OpenCL on their gaming cards but it has limitations and only works with Windows 8:

https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/OpenCL2-Driver.aspx

I am about ready to buy an AMD R9 290x, but part of me wondershow long until Vegas supports OpenCL 2.0 and if I should wait to get a compatible card. That may be a way down the road still, but it does have me thinking.

Current System: Intel i7 4930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)

[Kell Hymer]

I agree with John, the Video Guys DIY builds are great guides. John really knows his stuff and has been a great help on these forums. As far as the GPU is concerned, the Video Guys DIY builds are not NLE/CAD/3D Modeling specific. I have found that the professional Quadro and FirePro cards are not designed for NLE applications such as Vegas. I spent months researching Vegas’ GPU compatibility and summed it all up in the following thread:

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/24/984273

Current System: Intel i7 4930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)

[Kell Hymer]

I have done this with NVIDIA cards but was not sure that the same could be done with Radeon. This was the answer I needed. Thanks all!

Current System: Intel i7 4930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)

[Kell Hymer]

Good to know. Will mixing different Radeon cards present any problems? I could always get 2 of the R9 290X cards, but it would be cheaper if an older Radeon for my secondary card will work with the same drivers as the primary R9 290X.

Current System: Intel i7 4930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)

[Kell Hymer]

Hi Fabio,

If you will be editing HD footage, you will need a robust system unless you don’t mind working at frustratingly slow pace. The most important thing is CPU power and Intel processors are best for this as Sony Vegas will harness Intel’s hyper-threading. Some of the newer quad cores will be “OK” but I suggest a 6 core processor such as the Haswell Extreme i7-5830K or 5930k. Both of these use the 2011-V3 socket (not compatible with the previous 2011 sockets/CPUs). This requires an Intel X99 board which also supports the New DDR4 memory.

If you want to save a little bit of cash, go for an X79 board with a quad core i7-3820 or 4820K. For six cores, the i7-3930K and 4930K are great. I use the 4930K on a Asus P9-X79 Deluxe motherboard. While it does not support the new DDR4 memory like the X99 boards, it is plenty fast with quad channel memory up to 64GBs. Both X99 and X79 give 40 PCI-E lanes, reducing any bottlenecks for multiple video cards or PCI-E based SSDs.

Here is what I would do. I do not know the prices of all the components but assuming you do not need monitors or a PC case, you should be close to your budget.

– Intel X79 based Motherboard
– i7 SandyBridge-E or IvyBridge-E processors. Best to go with a 6 core. You will regret not getting the extra 2 cores after a few minutes of editing HD footage :). Also note that many X79 motherboards will require BIOS updates to support IvyBridge. Check the manufacturer to ensure compatibility.)
– 16GB RAM (4 X 4GB in order to utilize the quad channels) or 32GB (4 X 8GB)
– Minimum of 2 Hard drives, one for Windows and the other for your source material for your projects. Solid state drives will boost performance.
– Basic or mid range AMD video card if using Vegas Pro 10 or higher. Fully understanding GPU support in Vegas is near impossible, but suffice it to say AMD is better supported. NVIDIA GPUs in the GTX 5XX series or below will work in Vegas. Do not worry about the “workstation cards” as they are better suited for 3D modeling and CAD work, not so much for NLEs. I am looking to get an AMD gaming card to replace my Quadros. The GPU should be your last worry. Save the money and focus on a good processor. Some Intel processors, none of those mentioned above, have integrated graphics. I have heard that this can sometimes cause stability problems for video editors, especially when using a standalone GPU. You can turn integrated graphics off, but it seems like a waste to have a processor that does this and not be able to use it.

Current System: Intel i7 3930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)

[Kell Hymer]

Thank you John and Sorin. This has been a very helpful thread!!!

Current System: Intel i7 3930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)

[Kell Hymer]

Thanks John,

Much of the information I gathered for this thread came from you and a handful of others.

[John Rofrano] “Yes the project settings definitely affect timeline playback if the source doesn’t match because Vegas Pro will try and conform the source “on-the-fly” which could lead to stuttering playback. So matching the project to the media is recommended for improved playback. As for transcoding, that is one solution. Proxies are another. Vegas Pro 13.0 has a proxy workflow but I’ve never tried it because I don’t need it You might want to look into it.”

Makes sense but does the source material itself make a difference even when the project setting match it? I just dropped some 1080p 29.97fps GoPro footage onto a test timeline and then matched the settings. When I click on the media properties, it tells me the format is AVC. How do I know if this is MainConcept AVC or Sony’s version of AVC which has better OpenCL support? When rendering from one format to MainConcept AVC, newer GPUs are not supported as mentioned previously. However, does this change when, instead of rendering to, one is working with/editing MainConcept AVC material and needs a decent fps preview? I know Vegas itself will utilize OpenCL here but I am not sure if it will be hampered by using MainConcept AVC source material. If so, I could render to a different format before editing but transcoding the material multiple times might result in a quality loss. Proxy editing may solve this dilemma and is on my list of subjects to read up on.

[John Rofrano] “I would go for the Radeon R9 290x. If you can’t afford that get the R9 280. They won’t accelerate MainConcept AVC but they will accelerate everything else and provide good value for the money over a FirePro which Vegas Pro won’t really take advantage of the “workstation’ features.”

Considering the price difference, the R9 290x is a much more appealing option :). What do you mean that Vegas will not take advantage of “workstation” features? Based on my experience with NVIDIA Quadro and GTX cards, it seems to me that the drivers are more geared for CAD and 3d modeling applications more than for NLE software. Additionally, gaming cards must be able to render video editing previews on the fly in the same manner in which they do for video games. Are the FirePro cards similar? It makes me wonder if video editing processes are more similar to video games than the “workstation” processes associated with CAD and 3d modeling.

Current System: Intel i7 3930K | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)