Joe Moya
Forum Replies Created
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I might be missing something… but, I’m running CS4 with an NVidia 280 video card with virtually NO drag on an XP 32bit system (w/ 10 track layers of unrendered* work area video) using Canon HV30 m2t HD video. For me (see detail comp.specs below), it seems the Mercury Playback system would not be much of a plus unless we are talking 2k or better video and/or multi-camera editing of HD (…perhaps DSLR video as well?). And, if I compare this some other editing software I use I actually have had this capability to efficiently handle native HD files with NLE’s that are about 3+yrs. old.
I not saying that this isn’t a good idea… I’m all for increased speed (..but, I’m typically more concerned about stability)… . it’s just that I have this capacity now with out a 64bit system and can use my 32bit third party plug-ins. It seems this is only paving the way for the future 2,4,5K video and for typical 1920/1440 HD video the additional gain may be limited.
Joe
detail computer specs.:
WinXP, ASUS W6T6 WS Rev., Intel i7 3.2Ghz 8X32bit CPU, 6G Corsair DDR3 (low lat.) RAM, GeForce GTX 280, LG DVD, Realtek AC97 Aud., Adaptec 5405 RAID SAS controller for 2 Stripes of 2xHD 15k rpm Fujitsu 300G ea.,2×20″Samsung 204t* side note: For me, working in rendered work area’s (as apposed to unrendered) doesn’t add much to the editing speed but typically will not work and FREQUENTLY results in a “media pending” problem… in effect, HD work area renders are not very stable and reliable.
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That sounds like a work flow question… and, to answer that question you need to know what your will doing… and, by that I mean… are you going to do mostly compositing or editing… are you going to do develop a project for delivery in final form such as DVD or just prep it for others to finish in what ever format they need… those are just a couple of questions that need to be answered before anyone could say one application is best or better than another (or, how to use them in terms of preference).
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You could really make an impact if you could make a tutorial explaining how this was done (or equivalent using AE).
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Render MB with original video into smaller pieces…
Take the original video… create seperate projects… and render smaller sections of each MB plus video combination.
Finally, take each rendered smaller portions and combine into one new project… render each piece into one new …hopefully… rendered project.
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…let me try again…
… I have a m2t file that is 11,491,547 KB in size (yea… it’a a huge file… but, helps makes the point I am trying to make).
…the rendered preview file in Adobe is 10,030,031 KB….
That appears to be a compressed m2t (…or, a compressed original Canon mpeg-2 file if you want to call it that instead of m2t). After rendering the Adobe properties indicate a mpeg file (…other editing software indicate m2t).
It is this compression/rendering that sometimes works and sometimes does not when I am using Adobe and the m2t file from the Canon HV30. Rendering the work area with m2t files is not very reliable.
When I can’t view a rendered m2t file, I can’t edit… which means, that Adobe has problems with m2t files (…or files captured from an HV30 using Canon’s Capture software, Avid Liquid or Vega… each with same rendering problems in Adobe). I haven’t tried capturing this with Adobe (…specially since I have such bad luck getting Adobe to work with m2t files even if imported). But, that would make the most sense and the next thing to try… then, I could narrow down this issue – hardware or software problem.
Until then, I can’t see how anyone would want to go through this much trouble when there are other NLE’s whom seem to work fine without issues.
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I seem to have two problems with your post…
1) according to Adobe… they fully support the HV30 without mention of requiring the capture with Adobe or conversion of file format to mpeg.
2) according to Adobe… they support the import of the M2T file format.**
Why would Adobe convert the native M2T file format of Cannon to mpeg if it claims to be able to work with the M2T file format? Unless, Adobe knows it actually has problems with the M2T format and prefers the mpeg format. My experience seems to indicate that using M2T format and CS4 is at best a shot in the dark and very problematic (or as you put it – iffy).
Therefore, even if Adobe supports captures of video from the HV30 it doesn’t fully support the camera since it is dumbing down the quality of the video by converting to the mpeg format. And, doing this while also claiming to support the import of M2T file formats. Am I missing something here?
BTW, I was going to ref. the Adobe sites indicating they offer “FULL” support of the HV30 and import of M2T file format… but it appears that Adobe’s site is down.
Temporarilly I am sure.**Special Note:
After more carefull research, I did find one reference to support of M2T that was noted by Adobe as this… M2T(Sony HDV) … but, I could not find this “(Sony HDV)” notation at any other Adobe help page or anywhere else on the Adobe site for that matter. All other references simply indicate support of M2T – that’s it. I think most would assume that Adobe would support M2T as in all types of M2T files when the “(Sony HDV)” is missing in it’s literature.I do not think Adobe makes this important M2T limitation very clear. If so, they need to stop making the claim that the M2T file is support but rather say the Sony HDV M2T (only) file format is support for import. I guess you need to read the fine print…
Bottom line, Adobe Premeire Pro CS4 does NOT support M2T files unless it’s original source is Sony HDV… unless I a missing something then Adobe should remove the claim to support importing M2T files. They should also mention that when rendering, they simply convert the M2T file to an mpeg and do not use M2T natively. Plus, they should note that this conversion from M2T may or may not work and only supports the Sony HDV M2T formats.
If this is incorrect… please post… since I am having a hard time verifying my information since Adobe’s site seems to not be working very well and I can’t get complete information.
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Canon HV30
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As far as Avid and Vegas are concerned, keep in mind that when you launch PPro, you’re launching a background app for Photoshop and a dynamic link manager, an importer, etc., and those are using resources. Most NLEs don’t have as much other stuff running in the background.
I think you have something with this idea of background dll’s causing problems…
As for my page sizes using m2t files during render, (which I noticed PPro used ALL 8 CPU’s… not 4 like in AE)PPro was 2.01 Gigs. or 40% of total available (or 66% of executable RAM).. and uses about 75% of total CPU. And the overhead never gets above 81% of CPU or 45% of total page size available. Based on that, I have plenty of overhead to handle an uncompressed m2t file. And, during my test to see how much resources were being used… the Media Pending gold screen shows up with the green bar showing complete and the m2t file fails to render – a very typical results.
I just don’t believe this is a system issue… but, rather an Adobe issue… the only verification has come from a fellow editor who said he had the same problem and did pretty much what I did… just avoid using Prem Pro and sticks with Avid to edit m2t’s and 2K files. I am curious whether anyone else has this problem but just gave trying to solve this problem… or… they figured out a solution… but, I be darn if I can find any post referencing a solution.
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I didn’t know that CS4 used 64bit… I looked at the specs and don’t see any mention of it being a 64bit application. In fact, it doesn’t even use the 8 processors available… it will use only 4 (or at least I am assuming this since that is what the max processors AE will use).
I don’t think RAM is the problem (nor should limit rendering capacity)… case and point… AVID and VEGA use the limits of 32bit ram of 3G (if you use the /3G command) or 2.5G… they use an effective memory cache system with HD’s as the source for additional memory space. In which case really fast hard drives set up in multi-arrays come in really handy. So… in the case of 32bit with XP, faster HD drives make up the difference in the RAM limitations of 32 bit Windows. In that case, the raid setup I use is just about the fastest setup than can achieved for less than 1,500 dollars.
As for RAM… I have 6G of RAM because the i7 mobo uses a 3X2 gig RAM setup for the mobo… the i7 boards like to use 3,6,12 combinations of RAM. I didn’t put more RAM on the board expecting the use of that addtional RAM… thats just how the mobo is designed.
In this respect… REALLY fast raid structure that use I/O of 2 e-sata HD per raid 0 setup means I have 4 times the I/O channels used in combination with a very fast raid controller with the fastest HD’s made to date. To put this into perspective…. these 300G Fujitsu will do a FULL format in about 40 seconds (yea… I said it takes 40 seconds to do a FULL format). Now… that is fast.
All this being said,… the problem is NOT the Prem Pro is Slow… and, that I have a slow system. The problem is that PPRo CAN NOT render successfully most m2t files. While this is not a problem with other editing software.
If I don’t have a powerful system in the context of CS3 or CS4, then Adobe will have some serious problems when they move to the 64 bit system because this is a 1st generation 64bit compatible mobo that simply needs to move to Win7 64bit software upgrade.
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I’ve never had problems with audio and Prem Pro. And, this is a designated editing machine… and, I don’t even own any video games.
I am not sure if you looked at the ASUS specs for this Mobo… but, this is not a gamer machine (exclusively) although I can see how it could be used that way… plus, I don’t know of any gamer machine that uses Adaptec Raid Controllers to set up Raid 0 setups with 15k rpm Fujitsu e-sata drives. I don’t think there is much demand for gaming machines to have multi-hard drive raid setups… which I use as render/scratch designated drives.
This machine works fine with AVID (both MC and Liquid), VEGA and All Adobe software except Premier Pro. …Not to mention C4D and Blender.
Specifically, all my problems with PPro revolve around rendering… it constantly fails to render and I get the Media Pending screen. The render failure occurs at random. After many months of messing with PPro, reading the manual, searching the web for answers and waiting for upgrades, I came to the conclusion that PPro does NOT work well with m2t files.
Also, the more complex the edit, the less likely PPro works. It is unreliable when working with HD video files, many third party plug-ins and complex multitrack edits. It doesn’t crash too frequently but it almost never can successfully render a work area with any degree of success and frequently freezes. While on the otherhand, I have not had ANY freezes/crashes for many months with AVID Liquid or VEGA and they work natively with m2t’s (…while it appears to me that PPro only claims to work natively with m2t files).
I really wished Adobe PPro would play well with HD file formats… but, I can’t give it any points in the category of HD editing.