Jeremiah Black
Forum Replies Created
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[toke lahti] “I’m just wondering what’s your typical camera original format?
1920×1080 4:4:4 output seems a bit overkill if your original is hdcam(chroma 480×1080) or varicam(chroma 480×720).toke,
Camera formats vary wildly. If it’s DV, i take to 4:2:2 10 bit uncompressed. HDV gets taken to 4:2:2, 10 bit unconpressed, 1080i. HDCAM and film scans get taken to 4:4:4, 10 bit, uncompressed.
If it seems like an overkill, all I can say is that I notice a differnce, and better to err on the side of more, rather than less. You are right that it’s the lack of compression that’s more important than the increased color space.
Also, I do alot of heavey, heavy color correction and effects, so I’m sure it makes more of a differnce, than if someone was just doing straight cuts.
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card -
I think Graeme is right on, and we would all do well to remember that we’re talking about a camera that’s going to cost $6,000. I tried to mention this in my earlier post, but I guess I didn’t do too good a job.
Suddenly it’s like we’ve all (myself included) become greedy madmen, and are upset that the camera won’t also unfold into a four-door luxury sedan.
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card -
(LUIS) “You may not use a tape deck in your workflow, but someone is mastering your work to tape at some point (unless they are going directly to a filmprint from you hard drive master). As much as most of us want to get rid of tape, it will still be around for quite a while. P2 is a step in the right direction for getting tape out of the aquisition stage, but the vast majority of projects will still be mastered onto tape for years.”
Sure, but if you have to master out to tape, it would be mastered out to D5 or HD SR HQ. Not back to such a compressed format, unless money was tight. And, as far as movies go, either one of three things happens (a) they go to film (in which case you print it from the hard drive) ; (b) they go straight to DVD (in which case you encode it from the hard drive) ; or (c) it goes straight to TV- which usually doesn’t happen, but then it gets dumped to digibeta or D1 from your NLE timeline. So, odd as it may seem, going back to DVCPRO HD, really never comes up at all.
I certianly agree that tape will be around as a delivery format for a while, but I’m not so sure it will be as long as we think. I know for spots I’ve done for MTV, that all their stuff gets digitzied and put on a server and broadcast from there. Sure, I’ll still turn in a digibeta tape to them, they’ll nod and accept it, and we’ll all go through the same old routine, but it would save us both time and money if I just handed them a hard drive and they gave me the digitizing specs beforehand. The work I’ve done on digital cable is the same. I’ve seen MPEG2 encoded spots get handed off, only to be decoded, then dumped to beta SP, then handed off, then captured again to be re-encoded into MPEG2 for digital cable broadcast. Aaaarggghh! What waste! I wanted to scream, “just hand the hard drive and go, buddy! What are you guys doing?”
(LUIS) “While it may not be the best idea, I think a lot of people do in fact master back to the same format.”
That’s very true, but I’d just like to suggest that everyone do a side by side test. After heavy color correction, render you footage out (1) to the same codec it was shot in, and (2) to a 10 bit, uncomressed 4:4:4 (or 4:2:2 for SD) codec, and then just marvel at the difference. After seeing that, you’ll never want to dump it back to highly compressed tape again. (Unless you’re on a budget. Money trumps purity, of course.)
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card -
Rennie,
Well, in your post you said you were just guessing, but that sounds like a d@mn good guess to me.
One thing that I find interesting with P2 technology, is that once Sony embraces it (they’ll have their own proprietary brand of it that will only be compatible with Sony gear, of course) then I believe their DVCAM format will no longer have relevance, as once “tape speed” is done away with, then DVCAM’s advantages go kaput.
Anyone wanna chime in on this or correct me on this one?
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card -
“The HVX200 will shoot footage that will work seamlessly with established edit systems, and that can be mastered to (heaven forbid!) established tape formats on existing decks.”
But, I believe, the HVX200 won’t work with established NLEs as it is now. That’s why FCP 5 is coming out. Of course, if the codec were changed in a big way, instead of just tweaked a bit, it might’ve been more difficult to work out with FCP, and entailed changes that Apple wasn’t willing to make, but those are issues outside the scope of my knowledge.
Also, using existing tape decks doesn’t really apply to my workflow, since I render all my footage out with a BlackMagic codec, 10 bit 4:4:4 uncompressed. Dumping it back to DVCPRO HD at that point just recompresses it. So for me, a new codec would be great, since I don’t ever see a DVCPRO HD deck, Except for capture, but P2 will take care of that problem nicely!
Maybe it’s different for movies, but I never master back onto the format the material was shot on. I guess for tv and stuff, it’s probably the norm. So, I’ll admit I’m probably in a minority here on this one.
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card -
I, too, was also hoping that Panasonic would take the opportunity of the new camera to intoduce a new codec that made use of the entire 100 mb/sec for 24p. It made sense for tape to have to have one codec that recorded 60p and below, but with P2 it seems that there’s an increased flexibility. And the codecs that the HVX-200 are shooting to are upgraded versions of their existing codecs. That’s why they wouldn’t be “edit ready” without FCP5.
But I’m content with the upgrades that P2 and the new camera will bring us. You can’t have everything at once, I guess- certainly not for $6000. And we should keep in mind how low the cost of this camera is while we list its shortcomings. I’m sure new codecs will be on the table the next time around.
To be honest, I’m more upset that Sony won’t realease its HD codec to Avid or FCP for native editing. At least Panasonic did that.
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card -
Well, thanks everyone for the responses, but…
1) I NEVER use capture now.
2) The tape was recorded with a DSR-11. Not a camera.
3) This has happened with a dozen 60 minute tapes in a row, over several brands of mini-dv tape, and two different DSR-11s.I’m totally stumped. Next time I’m going to try recording in DVCam mode instead of regular dv.
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card -
Odd. I’m not using a camera at all, but rather recording fotoage via S-video straight to a Sony DSR-11. Though I’m using a Sony clamshell to import the fotoage, not the DSR-11.
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My only point is that DVCPRO50 tape records to DVCPRO tape- not mini DV. But, I will concede the possibility that a similar process is maybe possible with regular mini dv tape.
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card -
NO I think it just does internal propcessing at 10 or 32, but render is still to 8 bit. Hope I’m wrong but that’s what I got out of the NAB news.
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card