Jeff Regan
Forum Replies Created
-
John,
The clip highlights lovely subject matter–I used to live in Northern Virginia, so love the colonial architecture and wooded areas–however, this subject matter, vertical columns, tree branches, highlights two artifacts that ruins the footage for me, namely; horrendous chromatic aberration like I’ve never seen with my EX1 or HPX170 and a detail circuit that is set like a news/sports camera. So you end up with red and blue fringing on edges, and what doesn’t show that color fringing has black overshoot outlines on edges from the detail circuit.
This is as far from film like imagery as I can imagine, but that’s what you’re looking for and the camera does look sharp. JVC needs to catch up with Panasonic and Sony, who have chromatic aberration correction circuits in many of their cameras these days, which is even more important with low end, supposedly “HD” lenses.
The advantage, in my mind, of a full raster native sensor like the CMOS sensors found in the 300 and EX1, EX3, is the ability to be able to turn down(or off) the detail circuit and still have real resolution, much like what a film camera provides. A pixel shifted SD CCD camera like a 700 or HVX200, HPX170, relies on a detail circuit more to make up for a lack of natural resolution.
Any camera can be made to look sharp with detail cranked up, but it doesn’t mean that it’s natural resolution or can resolve very fine detail. The true test of a camera is turning the detail circuit off completely.
In any case, I’m sure your clients will be happy with the images that camera makes, but I do believe the lens is letting the camera down. It would be cool if you could demo a higher end lens to see if it made a difference.
I love the convenience of the QT .mov recording, this is the mode I used most with my FireStores with DVCPRO HD. Great having the choice of QT or XDCAM EX with the JVC.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
John,
I’m glad the 700 is delivering the image you were looking for. Did you get any feedback as to what was defective with your 300?
Interesting that pixel shifted SD CCD sensors(700) look sharper than native full raster CMOS sensors(300, EX1/EX3). I have to think this is due to detail circuit settings vs. real resolution. My HPX170 pixel shifted CCD camera doesn’t have the real resolving power of my EX1 CMOS camera.
Regarding AVC-Intra and computer processing requirements, Intra 100 needs about twice the processing power as XDCAM EX. A MacBook Pro laptop has no trouble with Intra 100 editing, so not a big deal. The easiest HD codec I’ve worked with is DVCPRO HD.
Intra was not designed for the big screen, it was designed to be more robust for grading and color correction in post.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
Ronald,
Agreed, “low light” is not a technical descriptor. ASA or EI numbers are better. This changes depending upon resolution and frame rate, shutter speed, gain setting and ND of course.
It does seem that CMOS offers very good sensitivity, a bit better than CCD given the same sensor size and pixel sites.
I find my EX1 to be pretty close to my HPX2700 in 720/24P, but is slower in 1080/24P. My HPX170 is much slower with the same settings.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
There is an informal review of the 300, EX1, JVC700 and Canon 5D in last month’s ICG Magazine, it was non-technical and didn’t get into the codecs. The 300 was chosen for the best ergonomics, form factor, good resolution, color, but was found to be the worst in low light. The JVC 700 did nothing that set it apart other than the convenience of QT file recording. The EX1 “punched above its weight” in image quality terms, according to them. The Canon 5D didn’t outdo the video
cameras except in low light ability and had the usual aliasing on the edges, worse ergonomics than the EX1.The 300 has the best codec by far, in my opinion, but the EX1 is fast and clean at the front end. I’m glad the 300 has -3db, I had forgotten that, since my tests were trying to get my Letus Ultimate 35mm adapters to work with the stock Fuji lens vs. a true test of the camera.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
Isaac,
Native frame rate mode means that the camera is only recording the actual frames needed, ie; 24 frames or 30 frames vs. 60 frames with redundant frames to make a 2:3 pulldown or 2:2 pulldown. Native mode gives you 2.5 minutes per Gb in DVCPRO HD or AVC-Intra 100 in 720/24P vs. 1 minute per Gb in non-Native mode.
Yes, JVC 700, HVX200/200A, HPX170, HPX500 are pixel shifted CCD sensors vs. HPX300 or EX1/3 CMOS full raster sensors.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
Ronald,
I mean compared to a 2/3″ camera, the HPX300 will be slower and to get back to the same sensitivity to even the EX1 or EX3, much less a good 2/3″ HD camera, you’d have to boost gain.
I’ve only spent about an hour with an HPX300, but find it to be about the best 1/3″ camera I’ve seen, especially factoring in AVC-Intra, but there’s only so much 1/3″ imagers can do in the trade off between sensitivity and noise.
I wish Panasonic would offer -3db in their lower end cameras to reduce noise if wanted–I most often shoot with my HDX900 and HPX2700 in -3db. Of course, these cameras are very sensitive, so the -3db setting isn’t a big deal.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
HPX300 has 1/3″ sensors, as does HMC150/HPX170, only CMOS full raster vs. CCD pixel shifted. HPX500 has 2/3″ CCD’s, pixel shifted, DVCPRO HD only, no AVC-Intra 50 or 100.
JVC 700 is HDV based, so MPEG2 Quicktime files or optional XDCAM EX, both are Long GOP 4:2:0, same as AVC CAM(AVC HD). DVCPRO HD offers Native frame rates, 4:2:2, I-Frame frame structure, but is sub-sampled to 960 and 1280 horizontal for 720 and 1080 resolutions.
JVC 700 uses 1/3″ CCD’s, pixel shifted vs. native HD sensors.
I would rather buy an EX1(well, actually I do have an EX1) than a 700 because it has 1/2″ full raster CMOS sensors, SxS card XDCAM EX is built-in. It is quieter and better in low light than any of the other cameras, but has CMOS artifacts, lousy ergonomics.
If Panasonic came out with a large sensor(1/2″ or bigger)camera with AVC-Intra 100 for under $10K, it would be a giant killer. HPX300 is not as good in low light, noisy, deep depth of field compared to EX1 or other larger sensor cameras.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
Isaac,
Don’t use bit rate as a quality comparison because DVCPRO HD is a DCT based codec that is much older and less efficient than an h.264 AVC codec. DVCPRO HD at 720/24PN runs at 40Mbps, not 100Mbps anyway.
What you get with a full sample codec is better resolution if the front end of the camera can actually produce a full raster image. The CCD’s in an HVX200/A, HPX170, HMC150 are pixel shifted, doubling the pixel count from 540X960 to 1080X1920, in theory. However, this does not have the true resolution as a full raster sensor. But, you are recording more samples horizontally with square pixels with AVC HD vs. rectangular pixels that sub-sample 1080X1920 down to 1080X1280 in the case of DVCPRO HD, just as HDCAM sub-samples to 1440.
Some of the lack of color space in a 4:2:0 codec can be replaced by a full sample codec, but the real detail has to exist in the first place.
I haven’t done side by side testing of the 150 and 170 because the 150 doesn’t do enough of what I want, and I already had 2/3″ DVCPRO HD cameras, so the 170 made more sense as a B-camera.
Ultimately you need to decide on which workflow works best for you, whether you want to spend $600 per 32Gb P2 card, if the off-speed capabilities of the 170 are important and what kind of monitoring you have.
If you want the most possible resolution, then an HPX300 is the best choice, and twice the dollars, of course!
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
AVC CAM or AVCHD codecs can look pretty good at 24Mbps, they are full sample codecs in highest quality mode, however, that advantage is not as useful for a pixel shifted CCD camera like the 150. The other issue is 4:2:0 color space vs. 4:2:2 for DVCPRO HD and the HPX170, which is the exact same front end as the 150. If doing a lot of green screen, 4:2:2 can be advantageous.
The 170 has the advantage of the simplicity of editing with DVCPRO HD,
which isn’t as processor intensive, variable frame rates for off-speed shots, Native frame rate modes so that a 32Gb card can record for over 80 minutes in 720/24PN. HD SDI is also useful for professional monitors, which the 150 lacks.Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
I know Panasonic is coming out with a large sensor CMOS camera. Somebody who is close to Panasonic hinted at it, but said he was under an NDA. I have no clue what price point will be, nor lens mount options.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com