[Jacob Murray]

Thanks for your input.

Looks like we will end up doing a flat pass through all 36 labrolls. Likely going to datacine to DPX instead of tapes. Boss wants to get some in at 4k for use as stock footage.

My question now becomes, what is the easiest/cheapest program to output some lowres quicktimes for editing from the 4k and 2k DPX scans? I may not need these at all since it looks like most of the film can be rescanned with corresponding TC to match our original DVCAMs that we have been using, but I’m likely to run into a problem with a couple of rolls and need to reingest them to be able to properly conform to the full res DPX files later.

I’ve also read a little bit about programs like Gluetools. First of all, how good are these DPX-FCP integration programs? Secondly, aside from color grading (which we may just do in Color), can FCP handle outputting for a 2k DI? We will definately be outputting at 1080p (the majority of our footage was shot on HDCAM), for likely an HDCAM finish, so we’re good to stay in FCP for that. I’ve done a couple of 1080p finishes that we’re printed onto film, but that wasn’t a true 2k finish. Can this finishing be done in FCP or will I need something more powerful, like an Avid DS?

[Jacob Murray]

Like everything else, its kind of a hodgpodge. There is a group that is consistent and has proper hours applied to the lab rolls and the tapes (I even have one tape that has 3 different hours on it for 3 different labrolls), so some of those are OK. But there are others that are not, and I have some overlap timecode as well.

[Jacob Murray]

Well everybody, thank you so much for your help.

Unfortunately (or fortunately perhaps?), for a variety of reasons, the project can’t currently support the time needed to get all the ducks properly in a row. I presented all of our options and gave my recommendation that we need to standardize everything right now, but that is not to be the chosen path… They are aware the mess this will cause later, but mostly due to budgetary concerns, a need to get a quality edit completed in the next 2 months outweighs the need to prepare for the eventual online. So, we are going to continue editing and look towards a DVD finish until further notice. Though we are going to start standardizing all the sequences as Carsten suggested.

Again, I really appreciated all your responses, they were very helpful.

[Jacob Murray]

Thanks for breaking it down further Carsten.

What you describe is what I sense the Producer is hoping will work.

Doing it this way definately means atleast months less headache for me… if it works.

I’ll run some tests later tonight and tomorrow morning and let you know how they go.

My gut still tells that converting everything now is the right thing to do, but it wouldn’t be the first time I was asked to fix a mess the wrong way.

[Jacob Murray]

Interesting.

I kind of did what you are talking about last week. We had to submit a cut on DVD to IFP. It took about a day and a half to convert the PAL sequences and adjust all the boundaries and find all the black flash frames that resulted from cutting in some of the 23.98 footage into a 29.97 timeline for the DVD. Worked fine for the purpose of the DVD.

For that I tried two methods, both of which worked for this offline DVD.

I copy and pasted a PAL HDV50i sequence into a 29.97 sequence.
Seemingly randomly, some clips were still in sync and were the right clips. Other times they boundaries were so far off that completely different shots were in the newly pasted sequence. For those I reloaded the original shot in the viewer and cut those back in. Other clips were cut a frame short at edit points, so I extended all of those to remove the black flash frames. There were a few other screwy things.

I also took some of those PAL sequences and converted them in Compressor using the advanced format conversion DV NTSC setting, with frame controls turned off and then cut those in to the master sequence.

What worries me is getting the film back into the project.

If the tapes are 29.97, and they were captured at 23.98, and we then telecine the film out to HDCAM tape at 23.98, are my timecodes going to match up so the edit doesn’t get thrown off?

I’d like to think what you are saying will jive, but I worry about all the little things that can go wrong along the way and wind up causing the conform to be more of a re-edit, that the decomposed material won’t properly match what we are viewing on the edit.

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying:

-Do nothing now except establish the master frame rate, which will be 23.98.
-Copy and paste the current sequences into new sequences at the proper frame rate and clean them up.
-Continue editing with all sequences set to the same frame rate, regardless of what the original format is
-When ready to online, consolidate the media and convert those clips only to 23.98.
-Cut the converted clips back in.

Yes? No?

Will the boundaries of the converted clips match those of the source material that was cut in at the different frame rate?

[Jacob Murray]

Ok, so batching the HDV footage out of compressor to 23.98 pro-res won’t give me a huge loss in quality?

That’s the main thing I am worried about. Do you think Nattress will give me a better quality, or are they about the same?

[Jacob Murray]

Thanks for the vote of confidence 🙂

I know it is a mess, and I am just an assistant editor. This is an independent project.

I don’t think hiring on any more people is an option.

Technically speaking, I know how to do all of this. The scale is the scary part, considering normally there would be 3-4 assistants working on a project this size.

But I love a good challenge.

I’ve considered everything you are saying. Particularly getting a proper list of selects back to the film for transfer to online quality material. Obviously the DVCAM tapes are offline.

The upside to this is there is a good chance we will gain access to a 4k scanner for free through a university. If this is the case, the I just to need to cross reference everything to make sure I have matching reel names, so I can then later transfer and correctly label the tapes later (we are thinking D5). Luckily the timecode of all the film material is all set at a different hour (1-33), so that’s one thing they got right. Am I correct in thinking that if re-transfer each film reel to HDCAM with the proper hour start, that I can capture and link these new tapes to the offline DVCAM tapes we’ve been editing with?

As for PAL vs. NTSC, really I was asking which of Compressor or Nattress is going to give me better quality. I’ve pushed for a Terranex conversion at a post house, but there’s always that nasty budget…

I have done these conversions in Compressor, but I haven’t used Nattress before. Which do you find easier/faster?

As for editing needing to be stopped immediately, I have pleaded that case several times.

The best agreement that I can come to is that the editor work on a section of material that is already correct at 23.98. Then I will go segment by segment, converting the material so that he can work on each one as I finish them. Do you foresee a problem with that?

I know this is going to take a LONG time. I’m hoping I can have it all the problem footage sorted out in about 6-8 weeks.