Hamdani Milas
Forum Replies Created
-
[Doug Metz] “Definitely a timecode bug.”
I can confirm your findings about setting different pre-roll timecodes.
After applying 00:00:00:00 as the project start timecode to projects across several libraries all unexpected render / red line issues and other quirky behaviours have been eliminated, although the option to change a project’s starting timecode for pre-roll purposes is effectively redundant.
I also submitted a bug report via FCP Feedback and pointed to this thread for further information. Perhaps others can consider doing the same to help bring this to Apple’s attention.
Great, back to work with confidence in FCPX restored. Thanks to all!
Hamdani Milas
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com -
Joe, I tried your suggestion about opening the Red Line Edit 08 library in FCPX 10.4.6 via XML export / import with the original project timecode offset and can confirm there was no red line issue (running on macOS Mojave).
Thanks!
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com -
I’m so glad you jumped in Doug, it seems you’ve nailed it.
I can confirm that resetting the project starting timecode to all zeroes consistently eliminates the red render error line across several affected projects in several updated libraries. It also fixed some other weirdness including incomplete render portions of a timeline that would remain unrendered and the mysterious jumping compound clip described in an earlier post.
It’s the last thing I would have thought of, I’ve been offsetting the project timecode to allow for colour bars and black preroll for years.
Thanks for submitting the bug report Doug and Joe, I can confirm that all clips across several libraries, including the one uploaded, all render fully, as expected.
Thanks so much to everyone for your time and effort in helping to track this down, it’s a huge relief and I am most grateful.
Hamdani Milas
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com -
Thanks for checking the library Joe. That’s something of a relief to know the issue is not specific to the iMac or macOS.
A little more information on the Shenzhen Bay Cam1 clip. It was rendered out of 3DS Max at 1920 x 873* / 25fps as a Targa image sequence of 801 frames. This was imported into After Effects (alpha ignored), brought into a comp of the same dimensions and fps and rendered as a ProRes HQ mov. We’ve been using this workflow for years with no issues.
(*We adopt those dimensions because the 2.2:1 aspect better suits these projects and it’s also a little faster than rendering 1080 frames in 3DS Max.)
It’s identical in all respects to the Shenzhen Bay Cam4 clip that precedes it, except as you can see this is a Compound Clip with a cloud layer. This clip may randomly show a red line but playback is always normal.
I’d be interested to see if any other clips show a red line as you are looking at this library. They usually appear randomly when random adjustments are made!
For example, I just opened the Cam4 CC into its own timeline and on returning to the Red Line Edit 08 project five additional red lines appeared above random clips. It’s almost as if the presence of one permanently red lined clip can affect render indicators (or trigger this bug) anywhere in the entire project.
I shall continue to look into it myself, meanwhile your feedback, and any other contribution, is much appreciated.
Hamdani Milas
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com -
Thanks Eric, that would be much appreciated. I have prepared the last 45 secs of a showreel I’m currently working on for a 3D animator colleague, you may download the zipped library file here. No password is required:
I’m afraid it’s almost 17GB, even though the generated library render files were deleted, because it includes some clips where the red line appears intermittently as well as the final clip which has persisted with a red line through several sessions with this edit.
Hamdani Milas
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com -
Thanks Ronny, appreciate the feedback. I had seen this FCP.co thread from 2012. My case though didn’t seem to fit the profile. On all clips affected – ProRes 422 HQ 1080/25p, or sometimes just titles and including a few where the red line doesn’t randomly come and go but persists regardless, there is no retiming or optical flow as the OP dgwvideo observed with his repeatable experience.
I’ve never encountered the red line issue before and have been using FCPX for more than 6 years. What caused it to suddenly start appearing randomly across several updated libraries after upgrading to Mojave and FCPX 10.4.8?
I have also observed, as the 2012 FCP.co thread mentions, that in some cases the red line can be ignored, as it has no effect on performance or output. But I have also noticed that with some clips when the playback stutters, in itself not desirable, the exported video either also stutters on playback or shows a freeze frame.
If it’s a bug, then I can only consider it a serious one because it cannot be eliminated, despite having applied all the usual maintenance / problem fixing routines, and it affects the ability to deliver work. I have reported it to Apple via Feedback but have seen no response.
Hamdani Milas
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com -
Tried all of the latest suggestions kindly offered, but nothing eliminated the random red line issue.
To my alarm I have discovered other odd behaviour that makes FCPX, in its present state on this machine, somewhat unfit for purpose.
Two examples.
1) Inserting a dissolve between one red-lined clip and a grey dotted line unrendered clip – both clips have adequate frames beyond the Out and In points to cover a 1 sec dissolve transition. However the transition simply cannot be applied, with the usual warning appearing about insufficient clip duration. Tried the three ways I’d previously used to add a dissolve; drag the effect from the transitions browser, option / drag a transition from another clip and Command T. None of these work. And yet there is ample footage on both sides of the edit.
2) Compound Clip manic behaviour – I have discovered that making a compound clip can sometimes get rid of the red line and choppy playback / rendering. A red-lined clip in one recent project is selected to test this with the Option G command to make a CC. As the CC is generated the clip deletes itself from its original location and instantly jumps backwards in the edit timeline, closes up the gap where it was, and inserts itself a couple of clips earlier! It’s not something you would believe was possible unless you saw it with your own eyes. This mad behaviour is repeatable and consistent on this red-lined clip.
The incomplete and inconsistent rendering issue also prevails, sometimes a third of a timeline is often left un-rendered when the preference is set for background rendering and, if this is disabled, the same applies, forced rendering almost always leaves a portion of the timeline unrendered.
There’s other weird stuff going on including ghost rendered titles where there is no title above a black solid but that oddity occurred just once and hasn’t reappeared. I have video screen caps of some of this quirkiness.
I’m flummoxed by the random unpredictability and instability of a previously reliable and stable editing app.
The only logical explanation I can think of is that the random red line issue and other weirdness started appearing after an update from High Sierra to Mojave which included an update to FCPX and subsequent updating of libraries. In hindsight I should have archived recent FCPX libraries and updated copies only, then at least I could have downgraded to the previous version of FCPX. But then I’d never previously had any issue with updating libraries through several versions of FCPX.
I’m still trying to locate a Mac with Mojave and the latest version of FCPX installed to see if the issues in the affected libraries appear on another machine, that will either eliminate or incriminate this iMac.
Thanks
Hamdani
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com -
[Joe Marler] “If we assume it is related to the render system, we could examine that.”
Thanks for the suggestion Joe, I’ll try this and post results.
Hamdani
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com -
The random red line in the render bar continues to make its random appearances. I’m still at a loss as to a fix.
Sometimes the playback of the clip stutters beneath the red line, sometimes it doesn’t seem to affect playback at all. At worst playback will freeze on the first frame of a red-lined clip and this freeze will also be rendered on an exported mpeg4. That is a major concern.
The red line will sometimes have an obvious trigger like the application of colour-wheels or a plugin. Sometimes extending a clip will trigger it. Other times it just appears with no apparent trigger.
I have also discovered that a variety of seemingly unrelated ‘voodoo’ tricks can make the red line disappear; separating the audio, moving the clip to another primary storyline location, duplicating the clip and positioning it directly above, extending the clip by a few frames, going back to the browser and bringing the clip in again to replace the existing clip, turning visibility of a title clip above off or on, copying the entire timeline and pasting it into a new project and so on… Sometimes these moves eliminate the red line for good, replacing them with the regular grey dots, and sometimes they don’t.
It’s all quite illogical but I suspect it’s connected with the internal rendering pipeline because clips with the regular un-rendered grey dot indicators above do not always complete rendering even when they’re force rendered.
Tried a complete uninstall of FCPX by using AppCleaner and then a reinstall but that’s not a fix.
About the only thing I haven’t tried is a clean install of Mojave and copy/migrate all system drive files from a CCC backup. But that could only bring in pre-existing cruft and I’m very loathe to do a full reinstall of all apps and plugins because there are several hundred.
It’s also maybe notable that this issue doesn’t seem to have been reported elsewhere recently, possibly indicating a machine-specific hardware or software issue.
Regardless, it’s the kind of jinx that would be guaranteed to pop up when it’s least appreciated, on an urgent delivery…
I’ll leave it at this for now, if anyone has any suggestions they’ll be most welcome but I think this bizarre issue would have even the Apple FCXP team scratching their heads. If anyone on that team is reading this feel free to contact me and I’ll be happy to help trouble-shoot it.
Hamdani Milas
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com -
Thanks Terry for unearthing this most interesting thread. It seems quite similar to what I’ve been experiencing, except the red line is thicker!
I’ve also eliminated the red line by detaching audio along with a number of other steps including, as mentioned before, creating a Compound Clip from red-lined footage and also placing an identical version of the problem clip above it on the secondary storyline. I’ve also experienced that detaching the audio has no effect at all on the red line. These would seem to be clues pointing at some kind of rendering issue under the hood.
The appearance of the red line continues to be arbitrary, unpredictable and the investigation continues…
Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com
