Guy Mcloughlin
Forum Replies Created
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Not>>> Sure what you have read that show that the pre-amps are good vs noisy audio circuitry
I say this because I can record pretty much the same noise levels whether I’m using my Sound Devices MixPre or the built-in HMC-150 pre-amps. If the noise was only caused by crappy camera pre-amps, then I should see a big drop in the noise-floor when I switch to the Sound Devices pre-amps, but I don’t. Both are noisy compared to the consumer cams I use ( Canon HG21, Canon HV30, Panasonic HS700 ) and my old DVX-100 camera, all show a noise floor about 15+ dB lower than the HMC-150.
>>>Neither the Zoom nor the Olympus LS-10 are ‘motion picture’ quality sound.
To achieve what I would consider “motion picture” sound ( for lack of a better word ) you still need to use professional mixers and professional mics that are designed for this type of work, and have an expert sound people operating during the shoot.
Provided a good LINE-LEVEL professional audio signal, the Olympus LS-10 or the Sony PCM-M10 can record outstanding audio. 96 KHz @24 bit sampling and a flat frequency range from 20-20KHz, with very low distortion. ( you don’t use the built-in mics, you don’t use the built-in pre-amps, you only use the DA converters to record the audio signal as HQ audio files )
Without professional mics and mixers then you might as well just record straight in to the HMC-150, as low cost audio gear will never give you this type of sound.
I’ve seen the Martin Doppelbauer tests and would never by any Zoom product. ( I’ve owned a few Zoom units briefly, but all of them had problems which I would not put up with )
>>>Zoom, Sony and Olympus which we are discussing are good alternatives to the native sound quality of the HMC-150, which for most situations is fine, but for quiet rooms, and interviews done in quiet rooms is just not up to the task, from my experiences. But these are not ‘professional’ level tools.
I agree with you when it comes to the Zoom products, but completely disagree when ONLY using the LINE-LEVEL record features of the Olympus and Sony compact recorders. They are great recorders, but you have to use professional mics and professional mixers to feed them a high quality audio signal. ( BTW, the MixPre is a very good mixer, very low noise levels and very good pre-amps, but you won’t hear this without a recorder that can properly record it’s signal )
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I also use a Sound Devices MixPre to both power and amplify my condenser mics, which helps a bit, but the real problem is not the HMC-150 pre-amps which are actually pretty good, but rather the noisy audio circuitry of the camera which is about 10-15 dB noiser than the best consumer cameras, and worse compared to other prosumer cameras.
If you want to get real “motion picture” quality sound ( better than the 48 dB that the HMC-150 records ), you need to add a good digital recorder to mix. I use the Olympus LS-10 which records audio from the Tape-Return socket on the MixPre field mixer. The Sony PCM-M10 is another great little digital recorder with a dynamic range of 80+ dB. ( 30 dB MORE than the HMC-150 records )
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>>>You must be kidding!!! You can’t touch the damn thing if its on for more than 3 minutes.
This is why people who do professional lighting invest in a pair of leather gloves so they can work with hot lights.
>>>I am not saying they are useless but they are better used in a fixed setup.
This is how most of the the NON ENG video world lights when they shoot, with either tungsten lights, HMI lights, florescent lights, or LED lights.
– Tungsten are the least expensive, but get very hot, and are weak lights when gelled to a daylight balance.
– HMI lights cost as much as a professional video camera, get quite hot, but are super bright and are usually balanced for daylight.
– Florescent lights are fairly low cost, but they are big and bulky and quite fragile. They can be either daylight or tungsten balanced.
– LED lights are very compact, very sturdy, but can be quite expensive compared to tungsten or florescent lights. A 1000 watt equivalent LED light can easily cost $1,000 – $2,000 for ONE light.
>>>Its not all that easy. I have seen some experienced people struggle having an even spread of light. And you loose half of your light in doing so!
Anyone who knows lighting should be able to evenly light pretty much any subject in minutes. I was trained by working in an professional studio in England for 2 years, and can pretty much light anything in my sleep.
It doesn’t matter how bright the light is, if what you want is an evenly lit environment.
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>>>Lowel lights are clumsy and too hot.
Lowel lights are definitely not clumsy, and have been used for both film and video for decades. They are compact and very efficient in terms of light output. Yes they are hot, but then all tungsten lights are hot.
>>>Plus if you are shooting HD, often times you’ll get the circular pattern in the middle of you frame. Thats because how it is designed.
Completely incorrect. If you know how to use a fresnel light you should know how to adjust it to achieve an even spread of light across the area you are shooting.
>>>I would rather suggest you something like microbeam 128. Its a LED light. A strong intensity light, easy to carry around and it stays cool.
This is a great ENG style light where you are standing within 6 feet of your subject, and you only want to light one or two people directly in front of your camera. These type of lights are not designed to light large areas or people that are 10+ feet from the camera.
The Lowell lights I mentioned are designed to be mounted on a proper light stand and can light a small room, or someone standing 10+ feet away from the camera. The larger 650 watt fresnels can light someone standing 30 feet away from the camera, or even larger rooms.
As I mentioned in my first post, it all comes down to what type of video you are shooting. If it’s ENG style “run’n’gun” shots with your subject close to the camera then a camera mounted LED light works great. If it’s someone presenting from a podium and you are 10+ feet away, then a bright fresnel light mounted on a proper light-stand can light up one person or the whole room.
I also use my Lowell lights when I shoot corporate interviews, where I use multiple lights to light both the person and the room we are filming in. ( think “60 Minutes” style of TV interviews )
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The info from Panasonic is kind of obscure, in that they state “improved recoder”, and nothing much else. ( I strongly suspect that “improved recoder” is actually “improved encoder” )
Reading Barry’s posts on DVXUser, it doesn’t appear that Barry has done any testing yet, so he is skeptical of any improvement. But one member of DVXUser posted non-scientific before and after screen grabs that appeared to show a difference with noise in darker areas of the image.
I shot a bunch of interviews last Friday with the new firmware, but haven’t had time to look at them yet, and probably won’t be able to get to them until next week. ( too much on my plate right now )
I can’t imagine Panasonic releasing a new firmware unless there was some obvious benefit to the end users.
I am also going to check audio recording, as audio noise is the one area that I’m not too happy about the HMC-150’s performance. ( it’s always been about 10 – 15 dB noisier than my other cameras, including some high end consumer video cameras )
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When shooting somebody in a dark auditorium I usually use a 250 watt Lowel Pro light with barn-doors placed about 10 feet off to the side, and I use an inexpensive 600 watt dimmer to adjust the intensity. This is a very small and portable package:
Lowel 250 watt Pro-Light Focus Flood Light : $130
Lowel Complete Four Leaf Barndoor Set : $33
Lowel O1-33 Omni Light Stand – 9′ : $68
Impact 600 Watt AC Dimmer Control : $25
…If you can’t place the light close to where you have to film, then you are in to a much bigger light like a 650 watt fresnel or an optical spot with a much bigger stand to support it:
Arri 650 Watt Plus Tungsten Fresnel : $378
Dedolight DLH650 650 Watt Stand Mount Spotlight : $960
If you are unsure what you need, then see if you can rent a couple of lights to try out. ( I own 6 Lowel lights, which includes 3 Pro lights with dimmers. They are compact and very handy to have around. )
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One of the reasons why I chose to standardize on Patriot IRIS Class 6 SDHC cards is that they consistently tested as 17 MB/sec write speed, which was much faster than any other brand I tested.
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Do you want to shoot ENG ( Electronic News Gathering ) style interviews, or something more professional looking as in a corporate/documentary style interview?
On camera lights are great for ENG style interviews, and off-camera plugged-in-to-the-wall lights are best for corporate/documentary interview shoots.
What do you want the light to do?
i.e. Fill in shadows in a run’n’gun situation, or to act as a main light in more formal room setting?
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The HMC-150 works perfectly with a good quality SDHC class 6 or class 10 card. The cards I use and recommend are:
Patriot Iris Series 32 GB SDHC Class 6 Flash Memory Card : $66
Patriot LX Series 32 GB Class 10 SDHC Flash Memory Card : $75
I’ve been using Patriot cards for the past 18 months with ZERO problems.
Make sure you format any card you buy in your camera before using it, and I would recommend periodically formatting your cards in your camera. Meaning if you shoot every day, I would format my cards in the camera at least once a month. If you shoot only a few times a week, then I would format your cards every 3-4 months. This ensures that the file-structure of your card is error free when you go to use it, and it may also spot card errors before they effect a shoot. ( I am assuming that the HMC-150 does at least a basic card check when formatting a card. I have no idea if this is actually the case )
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One thing I noticed about the Patriot IRIS SDHC cards is that they are slightly on the “thick” side, which seems to make them more robust, but they do fit my HMC-150 without any problems. A friend found them to be a little bit snug in his Canon T2i camera, but I’ve had no problems with my Canon 60D camera.