Greg Mcdonald
Forum Replies Created
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Hey Gern,
Well I’m glad someone else had this problem – mind you, I’m not glad you’re having this problem, I’m just glad to hear it wasn’t just me.
The only thing that fixed the problem for me was to stop using Vegas and to just stick to FCP. It’s a better program for my needs anyway.
Greg
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Rick,
Thank you for taking the time to look into it.
At least I do have the work around of lowering the contrast every time before I output to DVD. Then putting it back to zero before I do any other type of outputs. That’s a total pain and it’s not something that I should have to do in order to get a proper DVD output but it does work.
Just means I most definitely will not be buying the full Vegas program. I thought it might be an option for certain jobs but I’ll be sticking to Final Cut Pro.
Greg
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Rick,
So I pulled the 2 .mpg files output from Vegas into Nero to make standard DVD files and the results are the same. The output made from the file where I made no adjustments has the increased chroma saturation/high contrast and the output made from the .mpg where I reduced the contrast by 15% looks correct like the source file.
This “VTS_01_1.VOB” file is the output file made from the .mpg file where no adjustments where made to contrast:
https://icorptv.com/assets/multimedia/NeroFromNoAdjustmentFile/VTS_01_1.VOB
This “VTS_01_1.VOB” file is the output file made from the .mpg file where the contrast was reduced by 15%:
https://icorptv.com/assets/multimedia/NeroFromMinus15Contrast/VTS_01_1.VOB
Once again if you open these up in a DVD player like Real, PowerDVD or Nero Showtime and compare these to the frame grab from the source file, the .vob with the lowered contrast looks like the source while the other one has the increased sat/contrast.
And just to be sure, I burned these 2 outputs to DVD and watched them on a TV set with the same results.
It has to be the MainConcept mpeg-2 encoder, which is the DVD encoder in Architect also. I also pulled the original .mov source file directly into Architect and rendered to DVD and the filed showed the same increased chroma sat/contrast that the .mpg file output from Vegas has.
I’m at a loss. Do you know what the next process of elimination step would be?
Greg
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Hey Rick & Edward,
Thanks for your help with this. Yea, I’m sure it’s something I’m doing or not doing right. I’m glad to hear you don’t have this problem. I couldn’t imagine Sony would put out a program that does this.
So, to try to narrow it down to what may be happening;
1. Yes, the DV playback while editing is good. Contrast is correct while editing and playing back in Vegas. In fact, when I reduce the contrast by 15% in Vegas, the video looks like the contrast has been reduced.
2. When I pull the rendered mpeg files back into a Vegas timeline, the file where I reduced the contrast by 15% looks like the contrast has been reduced by 15% and the file where I didn’t adjust the contrast, looks correct and normal.
3. When I pull the mpeg-2 file into Architect, it does not recompress the file.
Since the .mpg files I posted aren’t recompressed in Architect, Architect just converts them to standard .ifo and .vob DVD files, wouldn’t they suffice for a test?
If not, I’ll post up a .vob file output from Architect.
Thanks again for your help with this.
Greg
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jeditdv – in my post I only mentioned how the DVD output from Vegas looked on a TV where I made no adjustments to it.
The DVD output from Vegas where I reduced the contrast by 15% looked great on both TV sets – like the original as it should. As well as the DVD output from Premiere and Final Cut Pro looked like the original and didn’t have any increase of contrast.
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jeditdv – yes as I mentioned I watched the DVD’s on TV sets and the increased contrast is present. I tried 2 different TV’s using 3 different DVD players connected to those TV’s and the increase in contrast is there. I can say with absolute certainty that the increase in contrast is hard coded in the file and is not the result of any one particular player.
DSE – I have a basic understanding of gamma and if WMP has it’s own gamma setting that can change the look of a DVD it’s playing then forget about WMP. I just listed WMP as one player I tested among 4 players on the computer and 2 TV sets with 3 DVD players.
I understand that you can change the setup to 0-255 or to 16-235 and that typically still photo files like .bmp and .jpg files have the full range of 0-255 while video is 16-235.
In all my testing I didn’t change change the RGB or apply any changes whatsoever to the video track. I simply imported a file, like a .mov file (but as I mentioned I also captured DV footage into Vegas and got the same result). After importing the file and putting it in the timeline, I then rendered to mpeg-2 for DVD. Really, that’s all I did. I DID NOT apply any plug-ins or filters to the video track, such as the “Levels” or “Color Corrector” plug-in where you can apply “Computer RGB to Studio RGB” or vice versa.
So I guess my question is, if you DO NOT change the RGB set-up or apply any plug-ins or filters to the video track and Vegas by default, because of it’s native settings, increases the contrast in a mpeg-2 encode, what plug-in do I need to apply in order to get a mpeg-2 file to come out properly and look like the original?
But even that is just another work around to solve the problem. I’ve already discovered that I can get the mpeg-2 output to look like the original by applying the “Brightness and Contrast” plug-in and reducing the contrast on the video track by 15%. So it’s the same difference if the answer is to apply the “Brightness and Contrast” or to apply some other plug-in.
I’m used to using Final Cut Pro and Premiere only occasionally, but with both those programs, you can import a file or capture footage, then export to DVD and the DVD looks exactly like the original source – you don’t have to change the RGB setup or apply any filters to adjust for what the encoder does.
In fact Premiere also uses the MainConcept mpeg-2 encoder (at least 2.0 or earlier does, CS3 might not) and in Premiere it does not increase the contrast in the output files.
Did anyone open the output files I posted (they’re small, 1MB or less) in the program of your choice (other than Vegas that is) and compare them to the frame grab from the source .mov file?
If you do that you can see what I’m talking about.
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One thing I should add that I take for granted that maybe someone else won’t – I’m opening the .mpg output file in Windows Media Player, Real, PowerDVD, and Nero Showtime and comparing that to how the source .mov file looks when played back in Quicktime – so the files are compared within the same RGB set up.
I’m not comparing the output file to the timeline as it’s played back in Vegas – it looks fine in Vegas which has a different RGB set up.
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I’m using Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 7.0 which is what I thought originally was the problem – that with the cheaper software, they put a cheaper encoder in. But that’s not the case as both Platinum 7.0 and Vegas 7.0 use the exact same MainConcept mpeg-2 encoder. Just to make sure, I downloaded the free trial version of Vegas 7.0 and I got the exact same results with it as I did in Platinum 7.0.
So to get to your question, in both Platinum 7.0 and Vegas 7.0 I used the “DVD NTSC” template. I also tried in both programs the “DVD Architect NTSC video stream” template, then pulled the file into Architect and output a DVD. I used the default settings for the templates and in all the output files, the contrast increased by about 15%.
And yes, the project settings matched the render settings as the test source file/project was DV NTSC 29.97, 720×480, 4×3.
Here’s a 2 second clip from the .mpg output file from Vegas 7.0 where no adjustments were made to contrast or anything else:
https://icorptv.com/assets/multimedia/Vegas7-NoAdjustment.mpg
Here’s a 2 second clip from the .mpg output file from Vegas 7.0 where I reduced the contrast by 15%:
https://icorptv.com/assets/multimedia/Vegas7-Minus15PercentContrast.mpg
Here’s a frame grab from the source .mov file (the source file is uncompressed and it’s 632MB which is obviously why I didn’t upload it. But I assure you this frame grab is an accurate representation in terms of contrast of the source .mov file):
https://icorptv.com/assets/images/Source-Frame.jpg
Open the files with Windows Media Player or Real or any other program you use and you can see the mpeg file where I reduced the contrast by 15% looks like the original, while the mpeg with no adjustments – just imported into Vegas and output – shows the contrast increased pretty radically.
Any idea what it could be?
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The subject line of this thread contains my my specific question.
Anyway, the files I need aren’t for play back on a video device. They’re for streaming/progressive download on film sites so I need .mov files. .mp4 files won’t cut it.
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For anyone who cares, I spoke with Sony telephone support and I finally got the answer – you cannot output a .mov file with the h.264 codec in Vegas.