[Glen Hurd]

I’ll respond to you directly, considering the original content of your post :).

I wasn’t belittling newbs for being newbs. Poor Gerald stumbled into a landmine by saying some of us were upset becauseFCP X ,and technology in general, was allowing newbs with cheaper equipment to “overtake” our jobs. It wasn’t just the mythical belief in software that bothered me, but the same clichéd accusation that those who despise FCP X are doing it only for emotional reasons. Getting a little tired of that.
So I swung back hard, pointing out the complete uselessness of a newb trying to take clients away from someone who is established.

Look. I met a young man who’d finished 4 years at a local production school, and he was frustrated by his limited choices. I introduced him to FXPhd and tutored him on Shake and introduced him to PFTrack. I helped him plan shoots and lent him equipment. I told him he needed to accelerate his knowledge as fast as he could – past basic editing- or he was doomed. A year later, and he started working at one of the more prestigious houses in NY and already has his name on a movie credit. It’s not like I despise newbs. I help them. And my first step in helping them is to tell them that they are doomed – if they do nothing.

But I will concede that I came off too strong. It was 4 in the morning, so who knows how rational I was being.
And of course we were all newbs once. I just don’t know how many thought they were going to take over the industry because they had a cheap camera and some software. If they did, they were sure in for a rude awakening.

As to your “magic hour” comment, I didn’t understand what you were trying to say. But it did remind me of the classic newb magic-hour-mistake. Of course I know from experience. Heh. If you color-balance during magic hour, you don’t get magic hour. The point of magic hour is to capture the warmer tones, so you keep your white balance at its default setting. All that warmth and the glowing skin-tones kinda go away once you drop your white balance down to the high 3000s.
Not that you’ve ever done that, but it’s a classic example of having gear and a basic education, and having no idea how to apply the subtleties of the business.

I do apologize for being so heavy handed on the above post. It wasn’t necessary.

[Glen Hurd]

One day a boy and his father were walking along the beach.

The boy noticed a crab catcher carrying a bucket of crabs. The crab bucket did not have a top on it. He asked his father why the crabs were not able to escape.

His father said, “If there was only one crab in the bucket it would certainly escape. However, when there is more than one crab in the bucket, if one tries to crawl out, the other crabs grab hold and pull it back down so that it will share the same fate as the rest of them. ”
Crabs are such newbs! 🙂

As for pricing – I don’t know everyone’s situation, but I look at my business as one giant ongoing negotiation. I make a big sacrifice to form a relationship that will barely pay my bills, and use that as my stepping stone to acquire customers that will pay me better. My pitch isn’t about production. It’s about how they can make money with mass communication and the importance of capturing their audience through the seduction of vision and sound. I think it really helps to have a philosophical understanding for what works, and a psychological grasp of how to steer a viewer. Because when you talk to a client in those terms, they grasp that what you are bringing to the table is strategy – not a list of equipment. And strategy is what wins wars. People will pay for that. Over and over once they see it works. I had one client ask me to do a new commercial for them, because the old one was outdated and they needed to stop running it. During the time it wasn’t running, he said it was costing him $180,000 a month in business. Not running my commercial. Getting feedback like that – often by mistake from the customer – is priceless.

I learned to focus on that from a boss I had a long time ago. He was always extracting information from people without them even realizing he was doing it. Now he’s a mortgage banker.

[Glen Hurd]

[Gerald Baria] “I may not understand the sentiments of those old business owners suddenly being overtaken by newbies in the industry with cheaper gear, It must hurt a lot, but thats reality.”

Tim/Gary – I wasn’t trashing newbs for being newbs. I was trashing the concept that newbs armed with FCP X/cheap gear can overtake an industry. When you were newbs did you think you could?

Would anyone suggest that a newb with a cheaper camera is a threat to someone established with his F3 or Red? The point should be that the more experienced people are already drawing and competing for clients who demand quality. So why would a cheap editor be different? These are the clients how are well aware that poor quality not only fails to draw, but actually causes damage.
Where is the newb in that picture? Seriously.

Final Cut Pro going from $1000 to $300 isn’t newsworthy. That had no effect on this industry – whatsoever.
If you want to understand Apple’s audience, it’s not the financially strapped. That has never been their focus.
It is those who find FCP 7 to be intimidating. FCP X is the one-button mouse of the editing universe.

What should be newsworthy is that acquiring a cheap copy of “pro” software doesn’t turn a newb into a ninja. It just puts him on the same long path we’ve all been on – with the disadvantage that he won’t be able to talk to anyone outside the FCP X clique without constantly having to explain himself.

I feel sorry for him.

[Glen Hurd]

You nailed it Walter.

Look up “dumbing down” on wikipedia, and here’s the entry.

“Dumbing down can point to a variety of different situations, but the concept always involves a claim about the simplification of culture, education and thought; a decline in creativity and innovation; a degradation of artistic, cultural and intellectual standards, or the undermining of the very idea of a standard; and the trivialization of cultural, artistic and academic creations.”

I’d like to say more, but it sounds bitter.

[Glen Hurd]

First time I’d have to disagree with you Scott 🙂 What demise? From newbies? Is he serious? I’ve never seen a newbie do anything besides waste his life away for $10/hour doing wedding videos, or run around shooting misty scenes of ducks on water, with pirated music beds that he can post on Vimeo to tout a website, or running around getting coffee and doing errands in exchange for getting sage advice on how to really tell stories. I’ve never heard of a single professional editor anywhere express fear over an approaching newb. I guess they have a place at the bottom – where we all started. But that hardly effects the middle or the top – not for another 5 or 10 years. And by then, I doubt the editing profession will be talking in “storylines” and “events.”

A newb with FCP X is like a newb with a one-button mouse. Sure it’s simple. Now, can you draw me a picture of a rock? There you go! Very nice. Very nice.

The only newb that has my feathers ruffled is Apple. They are total noobs – at writing pro software. Anyone looked at Aperture lately? Oh sure, they just keep adding feature after feature – not!

Considering their new interest in incorporating gestures into Lion, I have a gesture here for them. The one-finger salute. Put that in your iCloud and smoke it.

[Glen Hurd]

Good input.

[Glen Hurd]

It’s true, my friend.

I’m taking a Smoke class, and the instructor, within the first few minutes, points out that projects done in FCP 7 can be brought into Smoke for finishing, but not if you’re using FCP X.
“FCP X is just Final Cut Express – Advanced. It’s essentially a toy. I don’t know how long FCP 7 can last, but I doubt it’ll be more than 1 or 2 years.”
His voice is completely devoid of emotion – he’s clumsy with FCP and he’s never used Avid. He could just as easily be talking about WalMart. But as a Smoke Op for The Mill, it’s obvious his opinion is one shared by those top 5% in our industry. The effects are already in motion. We may debating it here, but the conclusion is already spilling out there.

Moments later, we’re looking at Smoke’s timeline and the instructor casually draws our attention to the “Ripple” toggle – which gives Smoke’s timeline a somewhat “magnetic” characteristic.
“Make sure that’s off – you don’t want that on 90% of the time. You shouldn’t have to deal with the length of your timeline changing every time you make a decision to add or remove a clip.”
It’s like DejaVu – wasn’t David Lawrence saying that a month back? Smart cookie.

And guess what’s the first thing we’re taught?
How to conform off an EDL. One of the oldest methods of transferring a story from one machine to the other – still being used – and on a system that blows nitrous-fueled-smoke-rings around FCP X.

Salt and wounds.

It’s obvious he doesn’t hate Apple or FCP X or any of it. He’s not connected to them. He’s a Smoke Op who lives off of PC boxes and Linux. He’s just teaching a class, and calling it as he sees it.

But it’s also obvious that the FCP X debacle is starting to color everything else Apple does. For those inside and outside the Final Cut community.

When he updated his MacBook Air to Lion, and discovered that it not only broke Nuke, but his screen-capturing software, he gently reminded us of the dangers in trusting your pipeline to a company that doesn’t seem to value backwards-compatibility.

Ouch.

It’s not something I’d thought about before.

Apple’s actions haven’t just affected the FInal Cut community. Everyone in our industry is gazing at this mess, and the conclusions are already seeping into the mainstream and into our education.

Of course, the “rebels” and “believers” will maintain their faith in Apple, and that is their right and their choice.

But seeing this play out in front of me – like the results to a 2-month long experiment – seeing “the elite” influencing “education” and our industry’s “culture” – I can’t decide whether I should laugh or cry.
;-

[Glen Hurd]

I thought the hypocrisy dig was more at Bill’s signature, which carries a certain pious tint, instructing all who read that they should consider whether what they say is true, respectful, etc.

I don’t know how many comments on FCP X could be considered “true” unless we limited discussion just to specs. But the call for “respect” is the easiest rule to break – the minute you offend me I will declare that you aren’t showing me respect. Heh. 🙂

Many times Bill has stated that those who resented FCP X as the upgrade to FCP 7 were responding emotionally instead of intellectually.

Just one example, from “Fear, Loathing and Final Cut Pro X”

Bill writes –

And from the tenor here while I was away shooting in San Deigo. Today FEAR reigns supreme!

“Litsten to ME everyone,” I see a lot here. “I’m the one with specialized knowledge and I just noticed that the red birds are flying north. Let me be the first to tell you why this is the first sign of the apocolypse. Follow me to safety – or rue the day!”

Screw that.

I get it. Change breeds fear. But you know what?

I’m not afraid.

This writing – while passionate – certainly seems contrary to what his signature suggests. Especially when much of our early resistance to FCP X was based on a philosophical understanding of its shortcomings in any environment that required complying with broadcast standards and workflows. The big question at the time wasn’t if FCPX was useable for everyone, but rather if it had suddenly slipped from its high perch – achieved through 10 years of steady climbing (and evangelizing by all of us loyal users) – only to slide back into the valley. Not only was it unusable (to us) – which was a fact, and it had EOL’d the heart of our bread and butter – it also raised questions about Apple’s intentions.

Our angst was simply based on certain facts, and our expectations on how the industry responds to tools that break.

To paint the “fear” brush or the “culturally confused” brush or the “too stupid to realize the future is brighter” brush on us was a little insulting. But with Bill’s signature, it becomes hypocrisy – “Before speaking ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful, etc.”

As to the control freak comment, I would ask you what kind of behavior you would attribute to someone who is insulting on one hand, and calls for civility once the returning insults become overwhelming? Any effort to control a discussion’s temperature, after having contributed to its heat, seems a little self-serving. Doing that as a pattern could certainly lead someone somewhere to come up with a label. “Self-appointed control freak”. Considering the email sent to Ron – geesh, I guess I’d agree.

So let me shoot the same insult back, as a matter of demonstration.

The fear accusation has always seemed to be thrown against those who find Apple’s vision and FCP X sorely lacking, but that same label can just as easily be applied to it’s supporters. The irony is that it never has in this forum. Until now. 🙂

“Why cling to a product that has ruined Apple’s reputation at the highest tiers in our industry? Don’t you have any dreams of working there yourself? Do you simply lack the confidence? Do you find learning a struggle? Or do you fear stepping out of Apple’s little kingdom? Why are you afraid to move over to software that continues to be celebrated by the greatest visionaries in our industry? Do you need Apple to hold your hand on everything? It’s bad enough they tell you what video cards you can use – always at least a year behind the PC market, what your native Blu-ray experience should be, what the availability of USB3 will be. Now they’re telling you what the new best way to edit is, and you’re going along with that too? With a menu item that says “Import from iMovie?”

You see how that works? It is insulting, but it’s easy to write – I barely have to think.

And, to be clear, I really don’t feel that way. Not right now, anyway, heh! Shoot me a barb, and I’ll be thinking all kinds of things – but I won’t write them. Not today anyway. 🙂

But if I had a signature that espoused respecting others, blah blah blah, I’d say you were completely justified in calling me a hypocrite. Since I don’t, you’ll have to limit your observations to “jerk” and “a$$hat” with a sprinkling of “arrogant” for the right flavor 🙂

Maybe Ron needs to create a whole new category – apart from the “Forums”

See you in the Arena, anyone!!! 😉

[Glen Hurd]

Another freddie fan? Here? Every time I watch him, I’m 25 again, with better toys. Very cool . . . and thanks. 🙂

[Glen Hurd]

Ironically, I spent so much time editing my reply, to keep it as focused as I can manage, the name of the forum was suddenly changed. Ron moves fast. And controversy certainly never hurt traffic – heh. I’m sure Ron knows that “as iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens the wits of another.” This is probably one of the most educational forums on the cow right now.

And since it is now a stated goal to welcome debate (scary to think that we may reach a time when debate must first be welcomed before diverse opinions can be tolerated), I’ll expand on what I wanted to respond to.

You said new users might be put off by what was happening here. I would disagree. Here’s how.

The young and inexperienced are being offered a great service in this forum – they are being given the opportunity to hear opinions from many sides on what makes for a good edit tool and what doesn’t.

Instead of walking into a situation completely blind, they are getting point and counter-point.

If they don’t want to think, they don’t have to read at all.

But if they have big dreams and limited resources, they’re going to weigh everything that’s been said, and have an even deeper appreciation for the philosophical underpinnings that lie at the base of every application.

Like a boxing match, we essentially have two contenders.

In one corner the “old” idea that an edit tool should be a canvas upon which you can throw all your resources in a visual representation that depicts their relationships to a static timeline – and a humble willingness to share all its work – while maintaining sync – with many many other programs that are designed specifically for finishing – audio, color/grading, f/x work.

It should also offer ways of connecting to industry-standard hardware to maintain quality control.
While some might say this is a system that is tied to a dying industry (broadcast), I would remind them that a pursuit of quality is a product of competition.
Millions of drones post on Youtube, but only a relative few harness enough viewers to actually make a living.

One of my favorites is freddiew. He is a young star destined for greatness, and he definitely has to operate in this first corner – and probably has never produced broadcast work in his life. His standards require having access to many tools and a few like-minded friends, and FCP X (the upgrade to FCP 7) would cut him off at the knees.
He did a piece on “Epic VFX” – bringing video editing to the streets!
Watch the counter at the bottom 🙂 I’m still laughing.

In the other corner, we have what Apple said would be the upgrade: FCP X
It tries to do everything within the confines of a single program.

In spite of it’s space-age underpinnings, it’s very philosophy forces radical departures from previously accepted workflows.
Not once have I heard anyone discover a method of color-correcting that is superior to what was offered through Color or is available through Resolve.
I haven’t heard anyone talk about hooking up control surfaces to it so they can mix 16 channels of audio with their favorite Waves compressor/limiters and voice-enhancing plugins.
No one has demonstrated the ease with which you can export plates for rotoscoping, while maintaining sync with the original material.

Instead we hear that this the new wave of editing. But according to who? Randy?
What characteristics define the new wave of editors? The film-uneducated?
Who is the new audience? Corporate cubiclists forced to watch another boring “movie” on the differnece between a crush and sexual harassment?

Youtube, unfettered, will be the definition of who survives and who’s ignored. Once the excitement of seeing 1,000 talking cats dies down, competition will still drive quality, and quality is something most easily achieved when work can be shared, and a pipeline isn’t boiled down to one application.

With FCP X you can’t even create a new ecosystem. It’s the roach-motel of edit systems – ie it’s the only edit system being pitched as “professional” that forces you to spend $500 on third-party software so you can play with others.

Of course, no one has said that FCP X is unusable. But it’s revealing when I see a thread labeled “Real world job on FCP X” and it turns out to be a behind the scenes piece of a photographer taking snapshots of cakes for the wife.
Man, you gotta love the “real world.”

So, as a newbie, you have to decide. Are you the type of person who just wants to learn one application and hope it’s going to grow exactly as you need it to? Knowing that any muscle-memory you devleop will be completely wasted if you try and transfer your skills to another package?

ie. Do you feel lucky?

Or do you like to keep your options open, and have the ability to add other software programs to compliment your system as your own needs and resources grow?

Ask yourself, how is Apple’s knowledge of production – at any level – and insistence on parking their production future in FCP X’s corner superior to Avid or Adobe or Autodesk’s approach – who are firmly planted in the first corner?

These are good questions. Aren’t they? And we don’t ask them to be abusive. We ask them to learn. And if you find yourself struggling, you might want to consider the unimaginable. That your loyalty to FCP X may have more to do with loyalty to Apple than to your profession – if editing is your profession.

Everything I’ve just said is a distillation of the discussions going on in this forum, and would NEVER have been made had the “haters” been banned from contributing here.

Maybe “hater” is just the new “thinker.”