[David Michael]

Without using the in camera audio track it is the same as you would match for any other camera. Most people match from when the slate closes to the beginning of the audio clap.

Personally, I match to the blurry slate arm frame (one frame before) if there is one. But that doesn’t mean I’m correct.

-David

[David Michael]

I think I did get to the bottom of this, though my conclusions are based on deduction and not on fact.

I believe the Canon cameras record audio 1 frame early on average. This problem forced me to rethink my old syncing methods though, as I noticed the 2 frame problem as well. What I decided was that hearing the sound before seeing the clap simply means the clap falls between frames. So whether or not it is closer to match the moment of clap or to the frame before are equally inaccurate. I have begun to sync most all my sound to when the slate arm in blurry instead of to the point of contact and I think this may be more accurate.

Using pluraleyes, you can automatically match up all the clips, select all the audio and simply move it (alt+arrow) all a frame to the right in one keystroke. From there just relink each clip audio and drop in the browser.

I did work with a Canon camera that had accurate sound sync once. I believe it was a 7D and I believe they had the audio set to 44.1khz. This could be the entire difference.

Let me know your thoughts.

[David Michael]

Brad, thanks for your response, but this 5D did not record 29.97 fps, it recorded true 30p. And the problem certainly was that the audio was being assigned 24fps/ntsc timebase when it required 30fps/no-ntsc. You are right that Canon has since fixed the frame issues with their newer firmware, which is great. After struggling with all this, I recommend checking a test XML after importing audio files just to make sure they are pulling in with the proper settings.

[David Michael]

Interestingly enough I was able to fix this problem yesterday. I had my assistant over and set him on a course of action. Create new sequence settings, pull footage back scene by scene, and start pluraleyesing the properly imported footage.

At first we were using the original project – but the audio was still importing with the same screwed up settings. So I did a quick XML edit and pulled the files back in using that – alas the green bar was still present.

We tried redoing the settings and restarting FCP to no avail.

So I had him try starting from scratch in a new project. We opened a new project along side the old project and still were getting the green bar.

The solution was to restart FCP and create a new project without opening the old one. Then start pulling in the audio files and check them for green lines. We then opened the old project to use as a guide and, lo and behold, that project was suddenly fixed. So we copied everything from that project into the new one (for safety’s sake) and now everything is in sync. Strikes me as bizarre, but I’m not complaining.

Thanks for your assistance with this, I thought this was going to be a weeks long process of syncing that have an easy fix.

[David Michael]

Oh yeah, no shortage of unpleasant surprises over here.

And yes this is an offline, so I guess the best thing to do, like you said, is edit with mixed rates, reconnect when locked and media manage out the reconnected files for a conform.

Thanks for taking this journey with me, now it’s time to properly import the audio and get this sync done before Monday so I can actually cut something!

[David Michael]

Thanks for your thoughts. So that you have all the info that is burdening me, I currently have a rough assembly of the film – so I’m not locked by any means.

Since there is a lot more minute work to be done, I’m starting to resign myself to the idea that this project is going to need to be redone correctly with he current project as a guide. It was given to me in this state and so I’ve been trying to make it work the best I can, but with these media managing errors and sync issues, suddenly it’s seeming like way more trouble than I anticipated.

Here are my second level thoughts, that I haven’t yet shared for simplicity’s sake.

The reshoot footage – which has not been cut yet – was shot on a more current 5D. So it has a frame rate of 29.97 not 30. It too has these timecode mismatch issues.

I think what I probably need to do is either conform that footage to 30 or the other footage to 29.97. Though I’m not sure which one. I’m sorry for bringing you into my nightmare here, but if you have any thoughts they will be appreciated.

[David Michael]

OK here is the XML file. It is of all the synced files in my project before any changes. https://f1.creativecow.net/file/2327/2327_tofix.xml.zip

Some things I have discovered: the frame tag denotes the total number of frames and the string tag is a timecode number. Both of these are dependent on the TC rate that I am trying to change, so it makes sense that they are giving an error.

The result of the error is that if I am trying to change these parameters on one of my merged clips, the audio shifts unpredictably requiring me to resync everything.

If I export a sequence and an XML, it seems to work better, with only a few items being totally mismatched audio/video-wise.

Let me know your thoughts.

[David Michael]

Thanks for looking into this with me. Here is the unmodified text of the xml. I’ll post the actual file in the morning if this won’t do.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE xmeml>

A679CC61-6EA8-4CFB-83E1-D18EB5574C5A
add
162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV
3708

FALSE
30

-1
-1
162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV
TRUE

FALSE

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV
3441

FALSE
30

0
3441
0
3441
Square
TRUE
FALSE
none
162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV
0

FALSE

MVI_1510.mov
file://localhost/Volumes/Eastern%20Bluebird/Louisiana%20Organized/Media/Louisiana/MVI_1510.mov

30

3441

3441

1920
1080

44100
16

2

Distort
deformation
motion
motion
video

ulcorner
Upper Left

-0.5
-0.5

urcorner
Upper Right

0.5
-0.5

lrcorner
Lower Right

0.5
0.5

llcorner
Lower Left

-0.5
0.5

aspect
Aspect
-10000
10000
0

Basic Motion
basic
motion
motion
video

scale
Scale
0
1000
100

rotation
Rotation
-8640
8640
0

center
Center

0
0

centerOffset
Anchor Point

0
0

video

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV1
video
1
1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV2
audio
1
1
1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV3
audio
2
1
1

upper

10E561BE-3BB8-48D5-96EF-D23CD858FC3E

TRUE
FALSE

-1
-1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV
3690

TRUE
30

0
3690
18
3708
0
TRUE
162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV
18

FALSE

162C_003.wav
file://localhost/Volumes/Eastern%20Bluebird/Louisiana%20Organized/Media/Louisiana/162C_003.wav

30
TRUE

3690

30
TRUE

13:16:37:07
1433917
NDF
source

48000
24

1

Audio Levels
audiolevels
audiolevels
audiolevels
audio

Level
level
0
3.98109
1

Audio Pan
audiopan
audiopan
audiopan
audio

Pan
pan
-1
1
-1

audio
1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV1
video
1
1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV2
audio
1
1
1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV3
audio
2
1
1

D4A88B73-CEB2-4EEF-A0AF-1B08F5B041B5

TRUE
FALSE
1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV
3690

TRUE
30

0
3690
18
3708
0
TRUE
162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV
18

FALSE

Audio Levels
audiolevels
audiolevels
audiolevels
audio

Level
level
0
3.98109
1

Audio Pan
audiopan
audiopan
audiopan
audio

Pan
pan
-1
1
1

audio
1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV1
video
1
1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV2
audio
1
1
1

162C_003 MVI_1510.MOV3
audio
2
1
1

42598183-3D4C-4A68-B525-68D238C1D50A

TRUE
FALSE
2

Audio Levels
audiolevels
audiolevels
audiolevels
audio

Level
level
0
3.98109
1

[David Michael]

It did, except on my test clip the audio was cut off at the end perhaps due to this timecode/frame number mismatch. I wonder if there is anything I can do to eliminate that error?

[David Michael]

Yep, you’re dead on, this is the case. After running a test XML, it seems to fix the problem.

Only problem now is it gives me an error when I try to open the xml saying:

<timecode>: <string> and <frame> mismatched. Data defined in <string> element will be used.( line 222 )

If I can figure that out I think these issues can be resolved. Any ideas?