[David Lawrence]

[Lance Moody] “there is nothing inherent in the magnetic timeline that might preclude an editor from editing”

All true, it’s just that some of us need more than one real track 😉

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[David Lawrence]

Yep, looks promising. And check out that Angle Editor UI — it kinda reminds me of something… One can dream 😉

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[David Lawrence]

Excellent news!!!

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[David Lawrence]

One reason Lightworks is still being used in Hollywood is because it handles 3D workflows. Here’s a great recent DV Magazine article from Oliver Peters that talks about how it was used in Hugo.

https://www.dv.com/article/113960

I’m looking forward to the Mac OS release!

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[David Lawrence]

[Steve Connor] “The only thing that happens is that the clip to the right of the gap is lengthened as the gap clip moves, the original edit frame in that clip stays in the same position. “

Right, but even though that doesn’t change picture, it changes sound. It’s now a different sound edit. Since picture is covered, sound is likely the reason why it’s there in the first place. Or maybe the connected clip above is compositing over it. Lots of reasons why you might not want the head to change.

[Steve Connor] “I will not agree with your statement that the entire timeline is “ripple only”, because apart from the gap behaviour, when you use the position tool, it isn’t.

What I can say, through my months of experience with FCPX on a range of projects, is that the issue doesn’t affect how I edit in FCPX at all.”

Fair enough, I won’t try to convince you. I believe you when you say it’s not a problem for the way you work. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I find the bug interesting because I think it reveals something about the magnetic timeline’s programming logic and conceptual model. I believe the timeline is working exactly as designed. The bug is with the Position Tool. I do hope the next update addresses it. The fix seems pretty simple and once it’s fixed this is all moot.

[Steve Connor] “I may disagree with some of your logic but I have a great deal of respect for the way you approach things which makes me question and re-examine the way I work in FCPX, every time you pursue an argument like this I learn something new and that’s certainly a good thing.”

Thank you! It’s completely mutual. I really appreciate you pushing me to sharpen my arguments and especially appreciate learning more about FCPX from you. Even if we disagree, I really enjoy the dialogue. Thanks again!

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[David Lawrence]

[Steve Connor] “True, because the clip is not rippling”

That has nothing to do with the in and out points of the surround clips. I’m not interested in changing the head and tail of the surround clips. This has nothing to do with whether they ripple or not.

[Steve Connor] “But that would mean the timeline to the right of the clip is rippling?”

No. With overwrite, nothing on the timeline should move in either direction, except the object you’re dragging with your cursor. You might cover objects to the left or right with the object you’re dragging and shorten them, but they should never change position on the timeline or lengthen.

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[David Lawrence]

[Steve Connor] “David, is this what you were trying to do in your “example” – notice there is NO rippling going on.”

Steve,

THANK YOU for digging deeper and giving this a try.

No, your demo is doing something different. You’re performing a slide edit on the gap. Note how the head of the the clip in the Primary to the right of the gap is changing as you slide.

My demo is of an overwrite move. The head of the clip to the right of the clip should stay the same.

Try that with the Position Tool and watch what happens.

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[David Lawrence]

[Steve Connor] “Sorry, forgot to answer this. If you then find your clips are tied to another clip that you don’t want them connected to, you simply lift that clip from the primary storyline, creating a new gap clip in the primary for your two clips to be connected to.”

LOL, now we’re right back to where we started!

[Steve Connor] “As I said your example is NOT correct use of the FCPX timeline, you can take this from an experienced FCPX Editor. “

Disagree. I think my demo reasonable and consistent with the timeline object paradigm.

Here’s another way to think about it:

Gaps are objects. You can select them in the timeline index. You can move them with the arrow tool. You can connect clips to them. When you move gaps with connected clips using the arrow tool, everything works exactly as you’d expect.

If you move a clip with the Position tool, gap is left behind. Why? Because otherwise the timeline would ripple shut. This makes sense.

But if you move a gap with the Position Tool, even one frame, the timeline incorrectly assumes the intention is to remove the gap so it ripples shut.

The correct and consistent behavior would be for gap to be left behind. Simple. It should work exactly the same for gap objects as it does for clip objects. This would fix the problem be consistent with the Position Tool mode. I don’t think I’m out of line here.

Steve, I respect your insights but there’s more going on than “You’re holding it wrong.”

[Steve Connor] “Very much a case of “let’s agree to disagree strongly””

This we can agree on! 😉

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[David Lawrence]

[Steve Connor] “Then move one of the clips to the primary storyline”

What if it’s not “Primary”? This doesn’t solve the problem or answer the question. Are vertical connected clip relationships meaningful or not?

[Steve Connor] “Once again your example shows that you don’t understand how to edit in FCPX, the fact you didn’t know about overwrite trim shows this. The timeline is NOT always rippling, you are wrong.”

Steve, with all due respect, when I’m wrong, I’m happy to admit it. Are you able to do the same? I was wrong about Overwrite Trim. You are wrong when you say:

[Steve Connor] “Using the Position tool turns the magnetic timeline off…”

It doesn’t turn it off.

[Steve Connor] “…leaving you free to place, move and trim clips on the timeline…”

Yes, it does do this.

[Steve Connor] “…without ripple.”

No, it’s not turning off ripple on the timeline. It’s a tool mode that overwrites and inserts gap when needed. Not the same thing as turning off timeline ripple.

Try my example yourself and watch what happens.

The reason the edits get destroyed when you nudge a gap with the Position Tool is because the timeline is rippling them into the gap space.

If the Position Tool really “turns off the magnetic timeline” as you keep insisting, this wouldn’t happen.

Try it. “You’re holding it wrong” isn’t an answer.

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[David Lawrence]

[Steve Connor] “David, why would you want the clips connected to the gap?”

To create a sync relationship between those two clips only. I don’t want their sync relationship defined or affected by other clips in the storyline.

[Steve Connor] “Their relationship with each other stays the same.”

Not exactly. In your example at 0:15, moving the clips down the storyline changes the connection of two of them to a clip on the storyline. Their relationship is now tied to that clip. What if that’s not my intention?

Do the relationships defined by clip connections matter? If so then your demo fails because it defines the wrong relationship between primary and connected clips when the connected clips are repositioned.

[Steve Connor] “I’m afraid your “proof” video only shows a lack of understanding about how you edit in FCPX, you don’t work with gaps in that way”

Overwrite Trim notwithstanding, I think I understand FCPX just fine. The problem is that the timeline object model is inconsistent, and in the case of my example, destructive.

The timeline is always rippling. That’s what makes it magnetic.

besides,

[Steve Connor] “How does FCPX impose one workflow?”

😉

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