David Lawrence
2
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
-
[Walter Soyka] “Everybodyknowsthatwhitespacecarriesnomeaningfulinformation :)”
LOLthat’sright,Walter.Iforgot!_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
Yep, same old same old. Guess the author missed the past year and a half of this forum. My favorite part:
The uncluttered interface is key to understanding how radically innovative FCP X truly is. Conventional timelines resemble orchestral scores, with dozens of staffs representing myriad instruments and sections, each charted across time. In a conventional NLE timeline, video and audio tracks can similarly number in the dozens, overflowing even the largest display. In many cases, these tracks are mostly empty, containing only a handful of clips. Arguably, a massive waste of precious screen real estate is the result.
Gee, I thought all that “clutter” on the timeline including empty space was information.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Walter Soyka] “I’d be really interested in what you would have to say from a more editorial perspective. “
I would too.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Walter Soyka] “Just when you thought threads on general computing trends were safe!”
Must. Not. Post……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Jeremy Garchow] “The range selection tool is timeline only in FCP7. You simply cannot perform the same browser side functions in 7 as you can in X with ranges as they simply don’t exist. “
Yes.
[Jeremy Garchow] “You can’t set the beginning/end of range with keyboard shortcuts in 7, and actions applied to ranges are applied to that one clip only.”
Yes.
[Jeremy Garchow] “It’s a different ballgame.”
Yes, and…
that does not change the fact that a range selection is still a range selection.
[Jeremy Garchow] “FCPX does have fixed in out markers when opening a compound clip. They are determined by the boundary of the compound in the enclosing timeline.
This functionality would not work very well the Event Browser, especially when you start to sort clips by Favorite, Keyword, Filmstrip, etc. It will fall down very quickly and start to not make sense, but that seems pretty obvious, right?”
Right. But compound clips have nothing to do with an editor wanting to mark their next cut.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I mean, Apple added exactly what was wanted, and you really think they didn’t thought this through, or is it was designed “by a programmer and not an engineer because engineers don’t know us like we know us”?”
Yep, I think the evidence speaks for itself. Why else would your selection workflow would be messed up right now? Apple’s recent history is filled with examples of poorly thought out software design choices. Breaking the “Save As” command Mac OSX Lion, for example.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I’ve asked for an off switch or modifier.”
Sure, that would help. But ultimately it’s a band-aid. I think a better approach would be for them to get the PIOP design right. It’s very doable.
[Jeremy Garchow] “It’s annoying to you, but not to everyone. I believe that the way to move FCPX forward is not to turn off the magnetic timeline which has been asked over and over in this forum. As a matter of fact, the magnetic timeline does turn off if you know how to use it and it’s been there since day 1, like favorites.”
[Jeremy Garchow] “There is no editing 101 when it comes to interface, only metaphors to technical limitations that have existed for a very long time.”
Yes, but maybe there’s another reason some interface metaphors have stood the test of time. Maybe it’s because they’re appropriate and they work well. Technology is just one aspect of Human Interface Design.
Don’t get me wrong. I love innovation and appreciate Apple’s drive to push it. There are many great new ideas in FCPX and it continues to get better with every release. But I think we agree there’s also a lot of room for improvement.
I believe the best way to move FCPX forward is to maintain a healthy critical eye and dialogue. It’s good for FCPX, for Apple, and ultimately us as editors. Otherwise, we’re more likely to see future design nightmares as programmers add new features. Another reason why this forum continues to be interesting and relevant.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Jeremy Garchow] “Wow. A bit revisionist but I’ll allow it.”
I still firmly believe persistent In/Out marks are necessary. But yes, I have revised my thinking on how it needs to be implemented.
[Jeremy Garchow] “So now that the functionality is there, you don’t like it? What did you expect them to do? This is exactly why I didn’t want PIOPs as they make no sense in this application. It is not FCP8 or Pr 6.1, it is FCPX”
At first, I expected them to do something like what they’ve done. But it wasn’t until I actually tried it that I understood why you were complaining. The problem isn’t that PIOPs don’t belong in the application, the problem is that the basic UI model for selection and marking is oversimplified and incomplete.
[Jeremy Garchow] “You can’t compare FCP7 ranges to FCPX ranges, they aren’t even in the same league and don’t work in the browser at all.”
Sure you can.
The extra features and functions in FCPX are great, but that doesn’t change the fact that two entirely different editorial tasks have been shoehorned into range selection.
It seems pretty obvious but I’ll say it again. Marking In and Out is not the same as selecting a range.
It’s no surprise PIOPs are a mess. This is a classic example of programmers adding a feature without understanding the intention or need.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Fixed in and out markers don’t fit the X convention. Traditional in and out markers would get old fast when one starts to sort the timeline between all of the differing ranges and views. “
They could be if they were properly designed. The UI for marking In and Out needs to be completely separate from the range selection UI. Don’t like them? Fine, don’t use them. Everything would continue working they way you like. Why not build a UI flexible enough to give everyone what they want? I say it’s entirely possible.
[Jeremy Garchow] “What this proves to me is that people aren’t using the FCPX browser as it was designed and intended. They do not understand the dynamic nature of it (dynamic meaning ever changing) and must be locked in to fixed bin and viewer like behaviors. Old habits truly die hard.”
What this proves to me is that ProApps engineers need to do a better job understating basic NLE features and feature requests. Case in point – the new Event Viewer.
No time indicator and no skimming? Really? Why not put these directly in the Event Viewer window? Seriously weak.
I get FCPX is a new model. I really, truly do. It’s not about old habits dying hard. For me, it’s about whether the new FCPX UI model is flexible and scalable enough to accommodate the full universe of editorial needs and styles Legend once led.
I really hoped I would be more impressed with 10.0.6. There are some nice improvements, but the bottom line is the interface really is still annoying.
And it’s a drag that they’ve broken your workflow with this bogus PIOP implementation. I truly hope they fix it. But the way to fix it is not with an on/off preference. They need to fix it by understanding why so many editors were clamoring for it to begin with. It’s not old habits, it’s editing 101.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Oliver Peters] “It’s a prime example of an editorial feature designed by a programmer and not an editor.”
[Jeremy Garchow] “BS. They gave the people exactly what they wanted. “People” clamored for PIOPs, and that’s exactly what was delivered. Besides the multiple range capability, they work exactly like FCP7, is it not what people asked for? FCP8?”
I finally had a chance to download and play with 10.0.6 so now I understand your frustration. You’re right. Apple blew it with PIOPS.
But Oliver’s exactly right too. The reason they blew it is because ProApps engineers 1) oversimplified the selection paradigm and 2) misunderstood what editors were asking for.
The problem stems from a core design mistake – mixing range selection with marking IN and Out points. These are two entirely different editorial intentions.
Ins and Outs are marks.
Range often has nothing to do with why editors mark in and/or out. That’s why in FCP7, you have a Range Selection Tool (GGG).
In FCPX, marking in and out has been folded into the Range Selection Tool. This oversimplification is why adding persistence breaks the selection model.
What I think editors have been asking for and what should have been added, are a new class of In/Out markers.
The rules should be simple and obvious — only one In and/or Out per clip. If set, they persist and take priority, and other than that, if you don’t want to use them, don’t set them and everything works as before — the range In/Outs take over.
Range selection is not the same as marking In/Out.
Oliver’s right. The PIOPs mess is a crystal clear example of what happens when programmers design UI without understanding what the end user really wants.
Also, no PIOPs on the timeline = FAIL.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Andrew Richards] “There is no inherent superiority in FCPX due to is use of Core Data, and indeed I think it contributes to a lot of the sluggishness observed when a project gets complex and necessarily performs a lot more I/O on its SQLite database for each new timeline input.”
Agreed. This is what I meant when I referred to bloat earlier.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[willy pimentel] “Why is this category named “Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate” ??
FCP X Has had some time out and for most i feel it is not a debate anymore. It is a new Program that requires some getting used to and y this time we should have made up our minds if we want to upgrade or not. I feel it is a negative connotation and a disrespectul nameto apple and to the many users who have learned and adjusted to this program. THis section should be called FCPX.”A lot of us would beg to differ. Please see these two recent threads:
The interface is still annoying
Want to learn more about FCPX technique? Check out the Apple FCPX Techniques forum.
The FCPX debate is still active, passionate and robust. The name of this forum is fine.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Jeremy Garchow] ” have an FCP7 project I have been working on for a client for going on two years now. It takes 15 minutes to open and about 48 seconds to save, and that’s just one project. It’s not extremely huge (about 65 MBs) but it has a ton of stuff in it. Big Pr CS6 projects take a long time to open as well. It’s the nature of the NLE beast it seems.”
Yes, no argument from me there. It can take a long time in any NLE for any number of reasons.
[Jeremy Garchow] “[David Lawrence] “Can you get tags and keyword collections out of it?”
KW collections, sure.”
I may have been unclear. Can you export the tag/keyword metadata in a way that is useful in other programs? For example, can keyword collection data be exported and translated into bins via XML and/or some kind of translation utility? If that were possible, I would consider using FCPX as preflight organization tool ala Adobe Prelude, and cut on a timeline that is more to my liking.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl