David Cherniack
Forum Replies Created
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[Walter Soyka] “With FCPX, you explicitly define the relationships between clips when you edit them into the sequence, or re-position them within the sequence. Thereafter, FCPX will maintain those relationships during editorial operations. You may have to manually resolve some non-destructive overlaps, but you’ll never have to resolve clips broken by collision.
With FCP7, you place clips absolutely in time, creating implicit relationships that the software has no mechanism to track. If you want to to maintain that relationship during an editorial operation, you’ll have to read the timeline yourself, remember or infer the relationships between clips by their placement alone, and make a careful selection to avoid breaking those relationships — and you have to do this each and every time you perform an edit that may cause a collision.
How’d I do?”
That’s clear by me and I’ve always understood it that way…but Simon has said that X creates the connections as you edit…seems there’s a contradition as you say (and I’ve always understood) the relationships are defined by the editor.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “The clips stay where they are meant to stay because of the clip connections – but the clip connections are not something you’d have to think about activating because they would have arisen by default as a result of the editing process.”
So when you add an audio effect that you want in relationship with a video point you don’t have to add a connection? If so this software is smarter than me.
BTW You’re doing fine with your explanations.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I know. I’m the idiot around here.
Just because I don’t edit features doesn’t mean I don’t know what overlapping audio/video events and layers are. That’s why I asked you what “complex” editing means to you. It sounds just like editing to me, not necessarily “complex”.
By its very nature fcpx overlaps. Care to explain what you mean if I am missing something?”
One thing I’m sure of, Jeremy, is that you are not an idiot.
Before we get boggled down in trying to define complexity I’ll accept Simon’s experience of FCPx’s handling multiple overlaps, especially with audio, with aplomb. I’ll only add that complexty is both logistical and visual. The one to one map of the traditional timeline allows instant, relative reference, that simplifies visual complexity and makes it easier to manage logistically. This is what essentially what you’re suggesting with zones. I don’t think it’s a bad idea at all. I’ve only suggested that de-facto it recreates the traditional timeline ( if done properly ). Could they easily implement it? Who knows? The only thing I do know about NLE development is that almost any change to architecture is a BIG DEAL and can have invisible consequences throughout the system.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “Do check out the thread I mentioned earlier for a more complete explanation. It’s precisely in this case of having lots of overlapping clips where the insert gap function is far preferable (in my view) to any other way of going about it. The clip connections (which will be where you want them to be almost by definition will take care of what moves ahead and what stays put.
I’m clearly useless at explaining this point as I have tried several times without success! Unfortunately the best thing is probably to try and see if you can “break it” 😉 I couldn’t …”
I checked it out. I’ll take your word for it that FCP performs effortlessly over 24 tracks of overlapping audio because of clip connections…assuming you’re insering the gap between connected groups. Otherwise how will it know where to spilt the connected group except down the middle? I’d also point out that I can connect the clips in more ancient NLEs like PPro with the group function so deselecting the clips that are not to move is not matter of multiple actions, only one.
Nonetheless I rarely connect clips by groups as the relationship with effects and music is usually subject to change up to and including the final sound edit.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “[David Cherniack] “It’s not the number of tracks though they certainly are a part of it. It’s rather the consistent large number of overlapping events, both audio and video layers.”
Fcpx allows overlapping events, in fact, it’s really good at overlapping.”
I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing at all.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I guess, what’s complex editing in your view? More than 6 tracks of audio?”
It’s not the number of tracks though they certainly are a part of it. It’s rather the consistent large number of overlapping events, both audio and video layers.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I agree with Simon that the magnetic timeline isn’t necessarily a deal breaker”
No, I’m definitely not saying it is. Rather I’m only getting the impression that for complex editing it appears to be less efficient than the fixed track model. Others here who also do complex editing, would seem to agree.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “So much has been made of the Position tool in these discussion that it seems as though it’s been forgotten that the D key (or Edit>Overwrite) is your standard Overwrite mode, no different from FCP or any other NLE. In fact, it’s exactly the same and completely unchanged.”
Good to know.
[Simon Ubsdell] “[David Cherniack] “Doing insert gap with complex timelines is always going to require some adjustments”
… is now actually not the case with FCPX. I’d say that in 99% of cases there will be no need for repairs or adjustments of any kind (beyond possibly trimming the gap), as everything stays connected exactly where you’d hope it would. (I know it doesn’t seem possible or likely but try it and you’ll see that it’s true.) Accordingly, what used to be a multi-step process in almost every case (some times very many steps indeed), is now a single-step process.”
Simon, the most common insert gap operation I do will have audio clips, music and effects, overlapping. I want some of the clips to move with the gap and some to stay stationary. How is the magnetic timeline going to handle that without additional steps? I’m sincerely asking.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “ou know how many tracks you’re going to have before you edit?”
Almost completely. But I’m doing most of my sound tracks as I edit and mixing, unless it’s really a big outsourced job, can be done in Premiere/Audition.
A basic layout that’s modified as each film demands (All stereo pairs):
Voiceover X2 (if voiceover present)
Interview X 2 or as many as I need usually determnined by the mic used and their particular EQ which is adjusted in a track effect.
Sync X3
Effects X4
Music X3[Jeremy Garchow] “What if all of a sudden an effect is comprised of 6 stereo pairs, you don’t have to rearrange your timeline for that?”
I’d have to add two stereo pairs. One action.
[Jeremy Garchow] “”Zones” would simply adjust. I’m not assuming anything about your workflow. It’s cool. Let’s discuss it”
I think zones may be a very good idea. As most of my track layout is done at the beginning I don’t see it as inherently different than fixed tracks.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “For start it is just as possible to edit in Overwrite Mode as it ever was so why exactly is rippling such an issue?
Just as there are strategies for enabling rippling in a non-rippling timeline, so there are strategies for disabling rippling in FCPX.
Apologies if I’m missing a key complexity, but I really don’t think this is one of the major issues.
Personally I think that, despite all the dumbing-down comments, the rippling timeline actually successfully addresses some very high level and complex editing situations (as for instance with the insert gap capability) that are significantly less well catered for by traditional means.”
Maybe there’s something about the Magnetic timeline I don’t grasp. The way I understand it the position tool is the only ‘overwrite’ function available and it works as an override to the standard rippling mode. If that’s correct that’s not the same thing as working in overwrite. If it’s not, please do correct me.
Doing insert gap with complex timelines is always going to require some adjustments whether it’s done in ripple or overwrite. I do it in overwrite because I thinks it’s more controllable and predictable. But for me in PPro with the aid of a mouse macro it’s as simple as selecting everything from the cursor back with one mouse click, deselecting whatever overlaps that I don’t want to move and dragging a gap or entering the exact gap length.
David
AllinOneFilms.com