[Curt Pair]

Justin,

Like you, I have an F350 camera and an EX1 as a second camera. Many of our clients like to intercut the material from both. We’ve found they just want a single media type to archive and use in the post process. So, I take all of our EX1 clips and put them onto XD Cam HD, optical discs.

You are “almost” ready to archive your EX 1 footage to XD Cam discs! You may need one more product: Main Concept’s “Conversion Pack 2” plug in for Sony’s Clip Browser 2.0 software. I know, it’s like $550, but worth every penny. It’s made us look like rock stars to our clients.

I use this combo all the time and it works great for me and my clients love the results.

After you install the plug in, you’ll be able to view and select clips on SCB2, then right click and select convert to MXF. Here you have several options, like 420, 422, AAF, go to Avid, etc. I typically select 420, and then I make sure the frame rate, frequency rate, and quality match the XD Cam HD shot footage (Ex: 23.98p, 1080,35Mbps). Select the location you’d like to “store” the newly transferred files and hit ok.

Then I take those transcoded MXF files, copy them and paste them into the “CLIP” folder of an F75, F70 or PDW-U1 drive in FAM mode connected to my computer with a formatted XD optical disc inserted.

When that copy has occurred you’ll have proxy files created for you in the SUB CLIP folder as well.

YOU NEED TO KNOW: even if you shot the material with the EX1 @ 1920 x 1080, when you transcode, those clips will now be 1440 x 1080. At least they were oversampled to begin with. They will NOT be able to go back to their original state without quality loss (1920 x 1080). HOWEVER, if you are cutting in a project of 1440 x 1080 ANYWAY for the XD footage, this will NOT be a problem.

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Curt Pair]

Denis,

I would DEFINITELY copy the entire BPAV folder to the disc… however, the work-flow I’d suggest is to place that entire folder into an identifying folder: 12/5/08, SmithInterviews, DocProject, what have you so you can “tell” what it is before you have to open everything.

The difference between film and the xd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chri7TU4_GI
check this out! This dude is nuts! Seriously, Alister is certifiable… he’s done others too, like washing machines, dish washers and the like… In any event, I don’t think you could do this with film…

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

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[Curt Pair]

Don,

I couldn’t agree with you more! XD Media is more expensive than Blu-ray discs. I’ve gotten BR’s for about $14 for $25 GB. An XD disc of 23GB is about $24. The 50gb XD media is nearly THREE TIMES that amount at about $62.

I think you have the right idea… what’s the price you put on that original media? One thing to consider is that the XD media comes in a “cartridge” that unless you go intentionally poking around in the case/housing, it’s nearly impossible to scratch/damage the discs… How many of us out there have “burned discs” and then put them on top of something to “label” later or archive later, only to scratch because you’ve moved it around a few times… Just something to consider.

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Curt Pair]

We do the same thing as Steve Wargo. We buy a small USB hard Drive, and copy the ENTIRE BPAV folder to the drive.

I’ve made small text files to include the info: Shoot date, format, frame rate, crew names/contact etc.

I’ve also gone the “folder” with the name/format route.

You can also purchase stickers from Pro Label that can be filled out, and then taken off at a later date (non-permanent).

Just find a route that works for you and more importantly, your client.

I couldn’t agree more… DO NOT GIVE THE CARDS TO THE CLIENT! We’ve had some “other types” of flash media take as long as two months to get back, and the client refused to pay for the “rental” of the cards.

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Curt Pair]

Hey there, I’m a Sony ICE Team member, and I do indeed archive onto XD media! I have an F70 deck, a PDW-U1, and a 1500HD. All three will allow you to “write back” and archive media shot or transcoded to the mxf format.

In fact, I have taken digiBeta material and either dubbed it to IMX 50 file format or upconverted it to HD and saved that onto discs too! I’ll be honest and take it a step farther: I have indeed taken Beta, DV, DVCam, DVC Pro, and TIVO material and saved them onto XD discs by either recording straight into a deck or by first capturing the material into my NLE, editing appropriately, and saving/exporting as an .mxf file.

You cannot mix SD and HD files on the same disc.

There are some “rules” for which files can coexist on a disc:

For SD: (MPEG IMX and DVCAM):

Different video standards must be on different discs: 525 / 625 line (ie NTSC / PAL)

The different flavors must be on different discs:

30 Mbps, 8 ch – 16-bit audio
30 Mbps, 4 ch – 24-bit audio

40 Mbps, 8 ch – 16-bit audio
40 Mbps, 4 ch – 24-bit audio

50 Mbps, 8 ch – 16-bit audio
50 Mbps, 4 ch – 24-bit audio

DVCAM, 4 ch – 16 bit audio

For HD:

XDCAM HD 4:2:0

a. 59.94i, 30p – 18/25/35 Mbps
b. 50i, 25p – 18/25/35 Mbps
c. 23.98p – 18/25/35 Mbps
d. DVCAM – 525 line
e. DVCAM – 625 line

Currently I edit my files in Adobe Premiere Pro CS3, export my timeline out as an mxf file and copy to a new disc, by placing my mxf file into the clip folder of the disc in which I’d like to master material. I also copy my project files, graphics, music, fonts etc., and paste them into the “GENERAL” folder on my XD Cam Media for BOTH my original source/raw material disc and my edited master disc (currently this is limited to 500Mb, but will soon open up to the entire disc size of 23Gb or 50GB!). This way if I need to re-build or change something in my edited program I have the info necessary to perform that action on BOTH my archived master and my archived raw footage XD Cam HD discs.

If you were referring to “archive” as a means of storing data other than that originating as an mxf file or being transcoded to an mxf file, as mentioned in the other posting, then that gentleman is correct, we’re “almost there…” and when it happens it will first happen for the PC.

A person in Sony’s POSC recently sent me the following email: “GENERAL folder storage update is on the way but will first be released for the pdhd1500, then the U1, then possibly the F75 and other phase 2 machines. ETA is sketchy but it should happen within the next few months.” (note: other phase two machines are F70/F30)

I hope this helps in clearing up your questions and concerns, if not feel free to contact me directly.

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Curt Pair]

Michael,

I think you are right in line with the bit rates… I’ve found over the years that MOST dvd players are in that range. When I started authoring DVDs, 12 years ago, I tried shooting as high as the software would allow, given the length of my program. I was getting “hey, this won’t play in my dvd player…” more than I wanted, so I started decreasing my mid range bit rate, which is the majority of what your compression engine will shoot for. I set that between 6.5-7.5, and have phenomenal results. I think my general magic numbers are really 6.8-7.1 at two passes.

As far as my minimums and maximums: 4.2 & 8.0-8.5, depending on length of the program.

Are you using software or hardware acceleration to accomplish your task? I ask because if I use Adobe’s media encoder it generally takes (and you’re right…) 4-5X the program length to encode, if originally cut in HD; the mathematical equations are great to do all that downscaling! If it’s an SD original project, it’s about .75X real time or less in most cases.

If I use the Matrox media encoder that accompanies my card in my Axio system, it’s about 3X the program total run time to encode in HD (down converting to SD). If it’s an SD program, the Matrox takes about 1/3-1/2 the TRT, and in some cases, depending on the type of video even shorter than that!

Hardware will speed up this process.

I hope that helps. Feel free to throw out questions anytime! We’re all here to help each other!

Curt Pair
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/EX1
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Curt Pair]

William,

This post came to me from a friend who reads these regularly. My name is Curt Pair. I own a video production company in Phoenix, AZ: Picture This Productions, Inc. We do all sorts of production with MANY different cameras: from the EX1 to XD Cam HD (F350/700) to F900 Cine Alta HD Cam, and even things in between. I am a member of Sony’s ICE Team, (sort of like a product evangelist). I know a GREAT deal about the ENTIRE XD/EX line.

Without knowing ANYTHING else… I would have to agree with Noah. It seems that you’re taking unnecessary steps that will only add to your problem. I don’t understand the CineForm and Gaussian blur methodology. In any case, the blur won’t help create the look you’re after…

As my buddy, Brian Walker, who referred this to me says “Curt, you’re the guy to help this dude!” I am a PC guy! (I’m the LARGEST “anit-Mac” person you could ever meet, but that’s a long story, and not relevant here!) I also use Adobe Premiere! We do have different “systems” but I don’t think that matters much, as Boxx makes AWESOME systems, and it seems that yours is more than adequate.

I’d LOVE to know your entire process here from acquisition on the SxS card all the way through to DVD… by what you’ve written, I have a pretty good understanding; I’ll have to guess at some things, but here are some thoughts…

I need to know what version of PPCS3 you’re using. Did you know you can cut the SxS files NATIVELY now? That skips that whole step with CineForm! Plus, if you have the Main Concept plug in, that was designed for this camera, with the help from Sony, and is used EXCLUSIVELY by Sony in their own Clip Browser program, I don’t know why you aren’t using that. (BTW: if you upgrade to CS4, even MORE, killer usability with the EX line is possible, as Adobe has implemented a “Clip Browser” feature INSIDE Premiere Pro CS4!)

I’m using the Matrox Axio card/system; I don’t think that if you aren’t using this system you can’t get the same results, I may be faster.

I will admit, I too cut in HD, making color corrections, adding graphics and the like, THEN I export out of PPCS3 to Encore an make the .m2v file. I don’t go through that process of CineForm or adding blur…

Until the Adobe’s most recent update to CS3, I would open the files in Clip Browser 2.0, use the Main Concept codec to transcode the MP4, ORIGINAL/Native EX1/Sxs files to mxf, and then open the .mxf files in Premiere. (My reason/methodology for that is that my clients wanted “all files” on XD disc. This way, I could give them their “raw” footage on XD to match other things XD… They didn’t have to have some files on XD media and some on hard drives. What ever format, even 720 DVC Pro HD, we’d try to give our clients the footage on the same acquisition format to make it easier on their “non-technology” types in the office.)

Now that CS3 can edit the EX1 footage in it’s native format, I skip that step! I just “import” the .mp4 files into the HD/EX1 project with the appropriate settings (1080/720/24p/30p/60i…) (“Soon,” and I’m salivating for this one… Sony will release an update to their PDW-U1 drive that will open up the “General” folder from it’s current limitations of 500MB to the entire size of the disc! (23Gb/50Gb) That means I’ll be able to give clients NATIVE EX1/3 files from the SxS card, saved on the XD Media, in the general folder, with no transcoding. We are trying to shoot EVERYTHING on XD Cam HD now, as I truly believe it’s the “next Beta-cam.” In the end our clients will receive all of their raw materials on the same media making it easier for them to post, if they don’t use our facility.)

Once my edit is completed, I select the “MPEG2-DVD” file as my output type from the Adobe (in my case MATROX) media encoder, select the compression, either a Constant Bit Rate (CBR) or a Variable Bit Rate (VBR), the number of passes for the compression, I generally use two, the frame size, 16:9 letterbox, 4:3 squeeze, 4:3 edge cropped from the 16:9 HD file, (you know what I’m saying, it depends on the project and what the client wants) select a target folder, and let it rip.

I open in Encore, (The files won’t have to transcode here now), “build” my DVD, with menus, navigation, etc. Let it rip!

I haven’t had a single problem. It looks great. We have EXREMELY picky clients and we haven’t heard a single negative comment. I personally test ALL discs leaving the building, and I haven’t seen any problems. We’ve used Bravias (in SD mode, with pillar boxes on the side), SD 32″ Sony, field monitors, and the like review the materials before distribution.

I hope, if you try a few of these things they help out. If not, please feel free to contact me directly; I’d love to help out. Don’t do something drastic, and get rid of the best HD camera on the planet in the sub $6K range! There are ways to figure out the solutions!

Curt Pair
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/EX1
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Curt Pair]

William,

This post came to me from a friend who reads these regularly. My name is Curt Pair. I own a video production company in Phoenix, AZ: Picture This Productions, Inc. We do all sorts of production with MANY different cameras: from the EX1 to XD Cam HD (F350/700) to F900 Cine Alta HD Cam, and even things in between. I am a member of Sony’s ICE Team, (sort of like a product evangelist). I know a GREAT deal about the ENTIRE XD/EX line.

Without knowing ANYTHING else… I would have to agree with Noah. It seems that you’re taking unnecessary steps that will only add to your problem. I don’t understand the CineForm and Gaussian blur methodology. In any case, the blur won’t help create the look you’re after…

As my buddy, Brian Walker, who referred this to me says “Curt, you’re the guy to help this dude!” I am a PC guy! (I’m the LARGEST “anit-Mac” person you could ever meet, but that’s a long story, and not relevant here!) I also use Adobe Premiere! We do have different “systems” but I don’t think that matters much, as Boxx makes AWESOME systems, and it seems that yours is more than adequate.

I’d LOVE to know your entire process here from acquisition on the SxS card all the way through to DVD… by what you’ve written, I have a pretty good understanding; I’ll have to guess at some things, but here are some thoughts…

I need to know what version of PPCS3 you’re using. Did you know you can cut the SxS files NATIVELY now? That skips that whole step with CineForm! Plus, if you have the Main Concept plug in, that was designed for this camera, with the help from Sony, and is used EXCLUSIVELY by Sony in their own Clip Browser program, I don’t know why you aren’t using that. (BTW: if you upgrade to CS4, even MORE, killer usability with the EX line is possible, as Adobe has implemented a “Clip Browser” feature INSIDE Premiere Pro CS4!)

I’m using the Matrox Axio card/system; I don’t think that if you aren’t using this system you can’t get the same results, I may be faster.

I will admit, I too cut in HD, making color corrections, adding graphics and the like, THEN I export out of PPCS3 to Encore an make the .m2v file. I don’t go through that process of CineForm or adding blur…

Until the Adobe’s most recent update to CS3, I would open the files in Clip Browser 2.0, use the Main Concept codec to transcode the MP4, ORIGINAL/Native EX1/Sxs files to mxf, and then open the .mxf files in Premiere. (My reason/methodology for that is that my clients wanted “all files” on XD disc. This way, I could give them their “raw” footage on XD to match other things XD… They didn’t have to have some files on XD media and some on hard drives. What ever format, even 720 DVC Pro HD, we’d try to give our clients the footage on the same acquisition format to make it easier on their “non-technology” types in the office.)

Now that CS3 can edit the EX1 footage in it’s native format, I skip that step! I just “import” the .mp4 files into the HD/EX1 project with the appropriate settings (1080/720/24p/30p/60i…) (“Soon,” and I’m salivating for this one… Sony will release an update to their PDW-U1 drive that will open up the “General” folder from it’s current limitations of 500MB to the entire size of the disc! (23Gb/50Gb) That means I’ll be able to give clients NATIVE EX1/3 files from the SxS card, saved on the XD Media, in the general folder, with no transcoding. We are trying to shoot EVERYTHING on XD Cam HD now, as I truly believe it’s the “next Beta-cam.” In the end our clients will receive all of their raw materials on the same media making it easier for them to post, if they don’t use our facility.)

Once my edit is completed, I select the “MPEG2-DVD” file as my output type from the Adobe (in my case MATROX) media encoder, select the compression, either a Constant Bit Rate (CBR) or a Variable Bit Rate (VBR), the number of passes for the compression, I generally use two, the frame size, 16:9 letterbox, 4:3 squeeze, 4:3 edge cropped from the 16:9 HD file, (you know what I’m saying, it depends on the project and what the client wants) select a target folder, and let it rip.

I open in Encore, (The files won’t have to transcode here now), “build” my DVD, with menus, navigation, etc. Let it rip!

I haven’t had a single problem. It looks great. We have EXREMELY picky clients and we haven’t heard a single negative comment. I personally test ALL discs leaving the building, and I haven’t seen any problems. We’ve used Bravias (in SD mode, with pillar boxes on the side), SD 32″ Sony, field monitors, and the like review the materials before distribution.

I hope, if you try a few of these things they help out. If not, please feel free to contact me directly; I’d love to help out. Don’t do something drastic, and get rid of the best HD camera on the planet in the sub $6K range! There are ways to figure out the solutions!

Curt Pair
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/EX1
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Curt Pair]

You also asked about the PDW-U1… I have serial number 0003! I think it’s awesome now! They’ve upgraded the write back feature. It’s fantastic! I know you say it’s a little pricey for a “drive.” HOWEVER, it’s the ONLY Sony product currently capable of “all things XD.” Meaning it will read/write XD Cam with the following codecs: DV Cam, IMX (30,40,50), XD HD (1080 in 18, 25, 35Mbps in all frame rates: 24,25,30,50,60)and XD HD 50 (720p & 1080p). The various decks, F70, F75, & 1500 can’t do that. So it’s really phenomenal in that respect.

In November, the structure of the discs will open in terms of architecture… Currently, the “general” folder has a limit of 500 Mb. Later this year that will open to the full capacity of the disc. This is great, you can store what ever you want in that folder. Currently, I copy our project files to that folder (time-lines; also I store graphics, After Effects files and music in that folder). Sometimes it’s limiting because of the current limitations. It’s great to store everything necessary to “build” a finished piece with the raw material on the same disc.

Band Pro may have them in stock. I’d check with Nir Reches in LA.

[Curt Pair]

Shawn,

I’ve actually had BOTH cameras on the same set of the same shoot. I had to match them. In doing so, I had to push the HDX900 to it’s limit and bring the F350 down to be able to get them very close.

In the beginning, I was all about the HDX900. It was 2/3″ chips v. 1/2″ chip. That was until I actually shot footage on both, side by side. I dare anyone to be able to look at a monitor with BOTH cameras hooked up, in a blind viewing and say “that one is 2/3″, and that one is 1/2″.” I think the proof is in the pudding.

On that same shoot I was a bit worried. It was the first time I’d done green screen with the F350. I had shot green screen with the HDX and had decent results. The F350 blew the HDX away in color rendition; it was so much cleaner.

Yes the HDX900 puts out a nice image in 720. However, when it scales to the 1080 image it’s not as good as the F350. I have yet to compare the F700 to the HDX900 in 720p, but since it’s native image is 1080 and DOWNSCALES to 720, I don’t think I will need to do so in order to understand the results.

Workflow has become huge for our company. Tapeless workflows are just awesome. I can bring the footage in, already in clip format, so much faster than tape. It’s increasing our profit margins on EVERY job. I hope I never have to shoot tape again.