Is “export to xdcam” the holy grail of archiving?

[Clint Fleckenstein]

I too seek the Grail. It was one reason why I chose the XDCAM EX route. Sadly, I have a PDW-U1 paperweight on my desk right now; I didn’t know that the software to use it was still vaporware. I want to use the discs as data discs for backups of projects and raw clips, an idea I got from a pre-release review of the PDW-U1 when I was researching XDCAM EX for possible purchase.

Once I got my drive and realized it wouldn’t work the way I had hoped, I emailed Sony to ask about the capabilities I’d expected, and got the following response:

Hi Clint-

It’s actually going to require a combination of U1 firmware and an updated driver for the Mac, both of which are still a few months away.
The driver will enable you to write MXFs back to the disc. The firmware will enable you to expand the ‘General’ area up to the remaining capacity of the disc (currently it’s locked at 500 MB). We’ll have an announcement on the website when the driver is available, or you can feel free to check in with us in a month or two.

I got that response a couple of weeks ago. Since then they’ve released the new XDCAM Transfer (2.8) that enables write-back to the cards, from what I’ve read. I feel comfortable at this point taking Sony at their word, that they’re working on opening up new possibilities in the XDCAM architecture such as making my drive work.

I don’t know much about the disc-based XDCAM gear, because it’s out of our price range, but I was under the impression that it was not 1920×1080, but akin to HDV dimensions. I don’t know if that’s the case nowadays, or if that is how footage would be written back to the PDW-U1. If that’s the case, I’m even more certain I’d rather use the discs as robust data media, keeping my original HQ material intact.

I wish I’d waited on my PDW-U1 purchase, though; its warranty clock is ticking even though it’s sitting unused, and I don’t want to pay the 15% restocking fee to send it back and get a new one once the proper drivers and firmware are released. Despite that downside, I still remain optimistic. Archiving XDCAM footage to these durable cartridges truly is the holy grail of workflow for me.

Cf

[Ray Raley]

The new PDW-700 50 Mb 4:2:2 camera is 1920×1080. The 18/35 Mb 4:2:0 cameras are 1440×1080.

Ray

[Denis O’keefe]

Before we go off in too many directions, the 700 and the EX cams are 1920 x 1080. The 350, 355 are indeed 1440×1080.
But the question remains, when can we archive to disc? XDcam disc are discs after all, if they make the drive work like an old iomega zip I’ll buy one tomrrow.

[Don Greening]

[Denis O’Keefe] “But the question remains, when can we archive to disc?”

When Sony announces the PDW-U1 firmware update, I guess. Right now, if you want to archive your EX or PDW-700 footage to XDCAM Disc with the PDW-U1 you’ll have to down convert the footage to 1440X1080 because that’s the highest resolution the writer will accept at the moment. If you’re a Windows PC user and a 350 or 355 owner then you’ve always been able to archive with the U1.

The future firmware we’re all waiting for will enable full raster archiving plus general files (pictures, text, etc.) to be written to XDCAM Disc with few, if any, limitations. There are lots of folks with PDW-U1 drives sitting idle and waiting for the update. Especially those editing on a Mac.

I’m with you, Denis. As soon as the updates are released I’ll be in the lineup for the U1.

– Don

[Curt Pair]

Hey there, I’m a Sony ICE Team member, and I do indeed archive onto XD media! I have an F70 deck, a PDW-U1, and a 1500HD. All three will allow you to “write back” and archive media shot or transcoded to the mxf format.

In fact, I have taken digiBeta material and either dubbed it to IMX 50 file format or upconverted it to HD and saved that onto discs too! I’ll be honest and take it a step farther: I have indeed taken Beta, DV, DVCam, DVC Pro, and TIVO material and saved them onto XD discs by either recording straight into a deck or by first capturing the material into my NLE, editing appropriately, and saving/exporting as an .mxf file.

You cannot mix SD and HD files on the same disc.

There are some “rules” for which files can coexist on a disc:

For SD: (MPEG IMX and DVCAM):

Different video standards must be on different discs: 525 / 625 line (ie NTSC / PAL)

The different flavors must be on different discs:

30 Mbps, 8 ch – 16-bit audio
30 Mbps, 4 ch – 24-bit audio

40 Mbps, 8 ch – 16-bit audio
40 Mbps, 4 ch – 24-bit audio

50 Mbps, 8 ch – 16-bit audio
50 Mbps, 4 ch – 24-bit audio

DVCAM, 4 ch – 16 bit audio

For HD:

XDCAM HD 4:2:0

a. 59.94i, 30p – 18/25/35 Mbps
b. 50i, 25p – 18/25/35 Mbps
c. 23.98p – 18/25/35 Mbps
d. DVCAM – 525 line
e. DVCAM – 625 line

Currently I edit my files in Adobe Premiere Pro CS3, export my timeline out as an mxf file and copy to a new disc, by placing my mxf file into the clip folder of the disc in which I’d like to master material. I also copy my project files, graphics, music, fonts etc., and paste them into the “GENERAL” folder on my XD Cam Media for BOTH my original source/raw material disc and my edited master disc (currently this is limited to 500Mb, but will soon open up to the entire disc size of 23Gb or 50GB!). This way if I need to re-build or change something in my edited program I have the info necessary to perform that action on BOTH my archived master and my archived raw footage XD Cam HD discs.

If you were referring to “archive” as a means of storing data other than that originating as an mxf file or being transcoded to an mxf file, as mentioned in the other posting, then that gentleman is correct, we’re “almost there…” and when it happens it will first happen for the PC.

A person in Sony’s POSC recently sent me the following email: “GENERAL folder storage update is on the way but will first be released for the pdhd1500, then the U1, then possibly the F75 and other phase 2 machines. ETA is sketchy but it should happen within the next few months.” (note: other phase two machines are F70/F30)

I hope this helps in clearing up your questions and concerns, if not feel free to contact me directly.

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Sverker Hahn]

What are the pros and cons to archive (in the near future) on XDCAM disks compared to Blu-ray? Speed, ease, cost? I suspect XDCAM is more expensive …

Sverker Hahn, Stockholm

Slower is better!

Sony EX1
Final Cut Studio 2
iMac Intel
MacBook Pro 15″

[Don Greening]

Hi Sverker,

For some time now Sony has been pushing the idea that XDCAM discs are very reliable with a projected shelf life of at least 50 years. That fact alone would push me in the direction of archiving on XDCAM media instead of Blu-ray. XDCAM discs are substantially more expensive, so it all depends on the importance you attach to the material you want to archive. I would suspect that the PDW-U1 reader/writer would be quite easy to use and relatively fast, but until I have one that works with Apple computers this is just a guess.

– Don

[Curt Pair]

Don,

I couldn’t agree with you more! XD Media is more expensive than Blu-ray discs. I’ve gotten BR’s for about $14 for $25 GB. An XD disc of 23GB is about $24. The 50gb XD media is nearly THREE TIMES that amount at about $62.

I think you have the right idea… what’s the price you put on that original media? One thing to consider is that the XD media comes in a “cartridge” that unless you go intentionally poking around in the case/housing, it’s nearly impossible to scratch/damage the discs… How many of us out there have “burned discs” and then put them on top of something to “label” later or archive later, only to scratch because you’ve moved it around a few times… Just something to consider.

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Denis O’keefe]

It sounds like the last missing link is the firmware for the U1 that will open the “general” folder.
I really want to do is put 50 gigs of BPAV files ( and a copy of the browser and transfer software)on an XD disc and file it away for the future.
Which will raise the next question – is the unadulterated BPAV written to a data disc the best bet for long term archive? I suspect it is the best bet we have.
An old kinescope setup, a reel of film and a cool dry space would really insure a record that will last a hundred years, and is sounding more and more like a back to the future business plan

[Curt Pair]

Denis,

I would DEFINITELY copy the entire BPAV folder to the disc… however, the work-flow I’d suggest is to place that entire folder into an identifying folder: 12/5/08, SmithInterviews, DocProject, what have you so you can “tell” what it is before you have to open everything.

The difference between film and the xd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chri7TU4_GI
check this out! This dude is nuts! Seriously, Alister is certifiable… he’s done others too, like washing machines, dish washers and the like… In any event, I don’t think you could do this with film…

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

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