[Craig Seeman]

[zrb123] “You don’t need to deliver it on a hard drive, a simple Data DVD will do just fine (the movies you buy on itunes are only a little over one gig). If the Client wants me to set it up for them then that would of-course be an additional fee (but it is not going to be that difficult)”

Several Data DVDs since you’re not going to fit much HD on a Data DVD and they have to have the hard drive space and speed to handle the file once copied. Many people have their 3 year old $599 computers as primary computers.

[zrb123] “All I sagest it a relatively inexpensive way to deliver HD content relatively soon. If you don’t like that method then don’t use it.”

It’s whether the client likes and will pay for it. You’re talking about what could be a big expense (and time is money) for a very small client base at the moment. Hey if your clients are willing to spend the extra money great but don’t assume the workflow you mention is going to sell itself. HDV can have many aesthetic benefits but, once delivered, it may not have many financial benefits yet.

Heck you could even deliver a WMV HD file (in addition to the SD DVD) but are there that many clients willing to pay for you extra workflow? Only “you” can answer that, but I do video as a business and I’ve heard enough complaints from my compatriots to believe HDV is not a great money maker yet.

Things probably will change in a year from now but the cameras will be better then too. (AVCHD?, 1/3″ XDCAM HD?, etc.)

[Craig Seeman]

Thought I’d mention the other HDV thought . . . you deliver SD now but your client may come back in the future for an HD version when they have full playback capabilities.

So a year or two from now you get the order. You recapture that 90 minute wedding edit in HDV. You rerender titles, transitions, filter FX and the long GOP. Then you need to author that HD-DVD (or BluRay) and encode that to MPEG2 or VC1 or H.264 and then burn the disc. So maybe you’re looking at 5 to 8 hours work depending how fast your system is (if you’ve upgraded to faster computer and HD burner).

So you tell your client that new HD disc they’ve been waiting for is x hundreds of dollars before the order, from the wedding they already have on DVD a year or two previously.

Keep in mind if you need a new camera, HDV cameras make very nice DV cameras too (think about a camera light though) and, if on the chance you do have the above type of client, you’ll be good to go.

[Craig Seeman]

[zrb123] “”3) There’s no easy means to deliver HD product (yet) which means you basically have to eat the cost on the downcovert (or downconvert on input).”

I wouldn’t say that you have to eat the cost of the down convert, most I know will just start it before they go home at night or before they go to lunch depending on the length of the video.”

It’s still computer time. It’s time I can’t use for web compression, DVD/MPEG2 compression, other FX rendering. If you’re talking about a wedding video that might be 90 minutes long that a lot of time for a downconvert.

[zrb123] “You also say that there is no easy way to deliver a HD product, with in a month or two there will be. The Apple TV supports 720p video. All your client needs is a computer with 802.11G or 802.11N, a computer with iTunes, and an Apple TV, and they can ether send the HD content to the Apple TV and have it stored on its internal HD or they can stream it to the Apple TV. And Apple TV is only $299 which is actually very affordable (cheeper then any HD DVD or Blue Ray DVD player I have seen). And all you have to do instead of encoding a authoring a HD DVD is to output to the proper file type and give them the video file.”

Most people are not going to immediately run out and by AppleTV. You still have to deliver the file so factor in the cost of a hard drive too or are you going to your client’s home to xfer the file (assuming they have the space for the file on their hard drive) and either they are you will have to set up Apple TV. All this also assumes they have 802.11g or 802.11N. Heck after all that money spent they can probably buy an HD DVD player now. Sorry but just because it “can” be done doesn’t mean the will be common or financially viable.

Most folks want to pop a disc in a player and be done with it.

It’ll be a year or so (maybe longer) before people can get HD Disc players of some sort for $300 and even then growth may be slow.

Think of this. If EVERY TV sold is HD and 20% of the population buys one, that’s still 5 years for 100% change and 3 years for it to become the majority.

If you have clients who are asking about HD delivery be sure to charge them a higher price for it too.

Another thing to think about is HDV color correction is somewhat expensive too. If you’re working in HDV it doesn’t travel down firewire live. You need to get a box for that. Then you need to send that to a color accurate HD Monitor.

[Craig Seeman]

I bought a Sony PD-170 a few years ago after having a Sony PD-150 on “perma-loan.” I’m reluctant to move to HDV but would also be reluctant to get a new SD camera.

Here’s my “nutshell”
1) HDV cameras currently are worse in low light than SD especially worse than the PD-170
2) HDV can have motion artifact issues as others have noted.
3) There’s no easy means to deliver HD product (yet) which means you basically have to eat the cost on the downcovert (or downconvert on input).
4) By the time HD DVD or Blu-Ray become consumer affordable they’ll be another generation of HD cameras out (whether HDV or another codec) which may improve some of the issues noted above

On the other hand
The current HDV (and HVX-200) cameras have many new features that can be used in SD although there’s still the low light issue.

HD will become the standard at some point but that doesn’t mean the HDV camera will be up to the competition at that point (or it may be, I’m speculating not though).

[Craig Seeman]

One of the odd things about Flip4Mac is that when you get the free player you can demo all the way up to Studio Pro HD. Once you have a paid Studio or Studio Pro you lose the demo.

You can try reverting to demo mode by removing the telestream preferences (Do NOT throw it out) and then test. You can then replace the prefs and do an upgrade online if it works for you (it should be trying is believing).

It would be nice if you could always demo the higher feature set though. I’ll make sure they hear that.

[Craig Seeman]

Actually all major formats can progressive download (WMV9, MPEG4, H.264, Real, etc.) but of course Flash has great widespread use and Flash 8 offers great quality. I think using FLV and linking to a player would be a good way to go.

See a site like this for a good free player
https://www.jeroenwijering.com/?item=Flash_Video_Player

[Craig Seeman]

[Charles Simonson] “Yes, but you are the moderator for F4M’s forums. Do you not see a conflict of bias here when writing about F4M products? If not, then fair enough.”

I answer tech questions. Basically the same many of us do here such as yourself, Ben, Rick, me, others, etc..

Keep in mind Flip4Mac Studio series works in Cleaner, Squeeze, Compressor. I’m fairly well versed in all of them even beyond using Flip4Mac. Episode’s precursor, Compression Master, may have been a competitor (Popwire) since it was the only major Mac compression app that did not use Flip4Mac Studio but Episode is now Flip4Mac too.

Also keep in mind I work for 3rd Planet Video and use H.264, MPEG4part2, On2VP6, MPEG2, etc. which, until Episode, had little to do with Flip4Mac.

Being a forum moderator “someplace else” would be where the potential issue/bias might happen and I’ve made sure there’s no conflict in my being a COW participant and that. COW generates revenue when people come to THIS forum. That’s a strong reason why NOT to mention the other forum and gives good reason for Ron & Kathy to remove this part of the thread.

I’m here as a COW participant and offer my knowledge of the various compression apps and various codecs (as well as have my own questions answered) based on my professional work with many clients.

[Craig Seeman]

Here’s ProMax prices for Engine and Engine Pro as examples. It’s a lot for watch folders.
https://www2.promax.com/Products/Telestream-Interactive

[Craig Seeman]

I’m here as a Compressionist not a Flip4Mac rep. I use Squeeze (and beta test that), Cleaner, Compressor and on PC Window Media Encoder. I started using Episode when it was Compression Master and owned by Popwire. As a compressionist I use all the above for 3rd Planet Video’s clients, one of which is Flip4Mac and MANY others are not.

[Craig Seeman]

This PDF has a fair amount of detail what both Episode and Episode Pro have.
https://www.flip4mac.com/pdfs/dat_Episode_Nov2006.pdf