[Craig Alan]

Thanks Andrew.

Students coming in independent of class time will be rare. The sparse images seem to solve the problem of moving projects to other computers as needed.

Q1) If a student pulls the plug on a thunderbolt drive or it looses power will sparse images survive? My last lab used firewire raids and yes students made mistakes. We never lost a whole drive. Students did loose unsaved work. But that should be a lesson learned.

Q2) Are large raids more prone to failure? I don’t mean you would loose more at once (that’s a given) I mean more vulnerable.

I could opt for less storage – raid 10 is supported on these. I assume that’s about half the total storage which might be fine for now. I could also (I think) partition each of the four drives into two. That would give me eight partitions, enough for 8 classes. It would no longer be a raid, but as you point out, fast enough for most projects.

I don’t think any of my students will have fast Macs and his/her own copy of FCP X any where other than in class. However, if they want to back up their sparse image for safe keeping that could be an option.

Understood raid vs more drives. But I think in the future we will be shooting more and more to the Ki Pro. Our fly pack, will have one installed and I think the future sooner than later will be 2k/4k stuff. I also think if Apple comes out with the next gen Mac Pro it will have thunderbolt and they might leave off FW.

This is why I wonder about how much you want to be tying particular students to particular Macs. If the students are going to get the seat time they need on the system they loaded their footage onto, then immobile RAIDs are fine. I’m assuming there are multiple classes using the lab.

Yes but not at the same time. So If I had enough user accounts for each period plus a couple of extra then we could use all computers each period with certain teams/students being assigned a computer number. Thus my original questions about user accounts and media being protected from others.

The copy of ARD I ordered with ed discount was a little over $70.
I want to be able to do all this logging in and out each period from the ARD computer – possible?

Q3) It really needs to be just the server not used for other tasks like attendance and printing worksheets and so forth?

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

apple care suggested that there must be something wrong with the install disk image. gave up and installed from original DVD. installed fine. lots slower than from hard drive. would still like explanation if anyone knows. created image with disk utility. stored on a partition of one internal drive. not a standalone just an installer than can be used.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Thank you!

[Andrew Richards] “If you hadn’t already bought 10 RAIDs, I would be recommending different storage”

We will be buying more. What do you recommend? Right now I have 9 computers and nine g-raid firewire drives.

Arriving are 9 more Imacs with 8TB Pegasus R4 RAID Storage with Thunderbolt (4 x 2TB). I was told from two sources that these were the best option aside from much more expensive networked storage like you have described.

I have another 38 grand to add to these. I’m thinking nine more computers. That would give us 27 computers and classes are between 25-35 (+). I’m trying to have enough stations so I can teach editing with each student at a computer. A 2/1 ratio would have to do if I can’t get there. These extra students could have a partner for these lessons and take turns. For certain kids, that might actually help.

For the projects themselves, I have as many as 5 teams per period plus some students doing independent projects. However, some assignments I have all students write and direct his/her own. So with enough stations I could also have them write, direct, and edit his/her project. So we could have everyone editing at once.

I’m not averse to learning new skills but also need to get up and running. So if managing shared storage is a complex undertaking it might be better some other way.

I ordered ARD for the teacher station. Is it better on a dedicated Mac just for that purpose or will the teacher station, used for a wide variety of things, be fine?

Projects for students will vary widely. It’s also a work in progress. For class lessons we are usually centered on shoots that add skills. Lighting, using an audio mixer and different kinds of mikes, camera angles and vocabulary, scripts being translated into shots, etc. Types: Short form artistic, instructional, interviews, news reports, skits, drama, performance. But there will also be longer forms: events, documentaries and hopefully some longer form films.

As for codec: we are shooting with Canons HV40s (HDV tape), Panasonic P2s, Sony Z7U HDV and any of these connected to KI PRO apple pro res 422. We are also building a studio and once finished we will be doing live mixes using a Panasonic mixer: three camera shoots, live keys, etc.

I’d like to add some large sensor cams when we are finished setting up post and we can find more funding.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Thank you for your continued patience. I’m catching on but a bit baffled at how all this feels like a “work around”. For any institution, a must.

First sparse disk image workaround. That would mean each user would create a sparse disk image of each project? It seems like a great way to keep projects in a container that could be backed up, moved to another computer, archived, etc. The only thing I didn’t follow from the link is how do you clean up at the end of a session? Do you quit FCP X then unmount the sparse image?

Can the image be assigned only to one user account so that the next user cannot mount it? This might be a reasonable workflow. If these images are kept on the raid 0 drives will we be loosing any speed from this set up?

Intelligent Assistant’s Project Manager X: Fairly cheap. Does the managing for you. Removes projects to a new location. In FCP X they become invisible. Then moves them back when needed. Restarts are needed. At end of session use it to store current project in another location under my admin account and move them into the FCP X’s root level folders as needed.

Could I simply have two sets of folders on the root level (one with admin permission access only) and move projects into the properly named one for FCP X, restart into the right user account and be good to go? With or without Project Manager X?

Xsan: not necessarily out of my budget. The software is $1000. No biggie. But I would need the hardware that works with it. Wish I knew this was the best option before my last order went through. Still unopened but a huge deal to exchange. We ordered 10 thunderbolt raids. I have asked the company if they could be daisy chained together and work with xsan. I will also be meeting with another possible funding source to discuss finishing this post lab with all this in mind.

So if we were to use xsan and centralized storage: how easy will it be to assign permission to certain projects?

Craig

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

First Thanks so much for your help, Andrew.

I’m setting up a copy of FCP X on a partition of my editing computer and will be begin the course book shortly. I’m sure this will help me get a feeling for all this.

The raids will be raid 0. Media drives, exclusively.

Our plan would be to archive projects/media files on new drives using a hard drive dock and wipe the raids clean as needed.

Is FCP X so much faster and more efficient that the old rule of using external drives or separate internal drives (MAC PRO) as media drives no longer applies?

If a user account has two FCP X folders on the root level of the attached media raid, can’t another user have two other folders on the root level of the raid?

Two different user accounts do not share the same folders even on an attached drive do they? This would defeat the purpose of user accounts and permissions.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Andrew. But please help me get a good grasp of this.

[Andrew Richards] “FCPX stores Event and Project scratch by default in the current user’s Movies folder (so that is cordoned off from others already) or it can store Event and Project scratch at the root of any DAS.”

Why can’t the “current user’s Movies folder” be on an attached drive as opposed to the system drive which is never recommended for any editing program.

[Andrew Richards] “One thing you could do with DAS is carve it into partitions, one per student or team of students, and then apply permissions to them appropriately. That could get unwieldy though if your environment can’t tolerate wiping the DAS clean periodically to carve out new partitions.
“

Actually this is quite possible since the thunderbolt raids have removable drives. I could create enough initial partitions to accommodate a couple of extra user accounts. However, wouldn’t carving up a raid into partitions undermine much of the speed advantage of the raid? Also why can’t a folder on the raid be given access to only one user account as opposed to an entire partition?

I assume Apple wants FCP X in institutions. This can’t be a unique concern of mine. If you were sharing a computer why would you want your media available to everyone?

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

We’re not going to use thumb drives. The media and projects stay in class. Everything is done in teams and kids can be absent. Lower income. Can’t require thumb drives. We will have fast firewire and faster thunderbolt raids.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

We’re not going to use thumb drives. The media and projects stay in class. Everything is done in teams and kids can be absent. Lower income. Can’t require thumb drives. We will have fast firewire and faster thunderbolt raids.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

We will have external raids for media storage. Some will have firewire raids. Others will have thunderbolt raids.

These raids will be used for each computer not for a given account. My plan is to use user accounts to log in each period of instruction. So, for example, Team 4 Period 4 will be assigned a computer. They will save their work on that particular computer under that user account. Does FCP X treat a user account like all other programs do?

If I sign in under my user account, I can have FCP 7 projects, word docs, pics, etc that (given the right permissions set-up) no other user on that computer can open or even see. Can FCP X work that way?

The reason I ask is that this issue was a big cry from the pros that they didn’t want different clients seeing each other’s files. What if they were created in different user accounts?

The workflow of moving projects/media out of their home every period seems impractical. However, I will be setting up a teacher computer and apple remote desktop. So there might be a way to do this fast and efficiently.

Even if the project files can be moved, will the original media be visible to all?

Forgive me if I am using the wrong terms for FCP X (projects/events). This week I plan to start reading the certification book and learning the program. I was on the fence for a long time. I plan to use AVID for my advanced students and FCP X for beginners. I might start with Imovie at week 1 but I’ll see how easily they can pick up FCP X before going that route. All these programs are new to me having used FCP 3-7. And the old Imovie HD. When Imovie got the make over I didn’t like it. Felt too template-y. So I stayed with the old Imovie but mostly FCP.

What made me decide to even try FCP X was feedback from teachers that are using the program. They tell me kids are picking it up fast and having a good time with it and most importantly producing good work fast. We have each class 1-1 ½ hours a day not all day to edit. Time will tell if these same kids will be at a disadvantage if they move on to a pro environment that uses a different program with say traditional timelines and tracks.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Sorry Rick. You did mention this. On the Panasonic AG-HPX170 which has been our main camera (the 250 on order) they have a focus assist button which brings up either a graph or a bar or both and a magnified image “Magnifies the center portion of the image and displays the frequency distribution graph..” All of these are very helpful. The Sony Z7U has a focus helper function (expanded focus). Works great. But these are both in the traditional camcorder form factor and by the time you are done maybe a third the price or less depending on your choice of lens.

I wish the manufacturers would agree to call similiar functions by the same name.

On the Panasonic, for example, what they are calling AWB (auto white balance) is manual white balance on Sony and Canon and every other cam I have used.

How does the framing get screwed up? I really hope next year’s budget will let me buy one of these large sensor cam’s. Whenever I apply for funding I have to make sure i order a complete package and everything works together. It’s not like i am sitting on a budget I can draw from. So I start my research early, keeping an eye on end user experiences.

One more question: how long can you hand-hold the Canon steady enough when recording. I find the tighter the shot and the higher the resolution the more noticeable any unwanted camera movement becomes. Same with focus. Focus is much more critical. When I got to play with the red camera, I was thinking man this baby is a brick. I was also thinking how much i wanted one.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.