[Craig Alan]

Not getting how the basic workflow is so radically different. I do think the browser in X is more developed than in 7. However the workflow is for me pretty much the same. Organize imports in the browser. The two program browsers work differently with pros and cons for each. I prefer subclips to favorites but I much prefer all the tagging and sort abilities of X. I like the filmstrips of X but I prefer the I/O setting in a full window and I like the view blown up that way. But not a big deal as I get used to X. Next edit in a timeline.
Clearly the timeline is a work in progress in X. There are many ways to view the clips and aspects of the timeline and how it works and if it works without bugs. Seems like a lot of potential but needs some refinement. Color correcting is done in the inspector but also as an “effect”. Clips opening in their own timeline. An inconsistent option to use two viewer windows. Compound clips to simplify views but if used too much can mess up your system performance or worse. Secondary storylines are an option but do not have all the functions that the primary has. I don’t think all this means Apple wanted a different basic workflow than what we had before. I just think they got a lot done in the browser and the timeline needs work.
As for exporting- both programs did the job and were not particularly intuitive. But lots of articles on line to see you through it.
Seriously what are you doing in the browser that changes your workflow in the timeline?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Ryan,

Confirmed my understanding. But when you are making important budget decisions you need that confirmation.

I really like the 250 pana cam and when I light correctly I’ve gotten some fairly artistic looking shots with it. I really think lighting is the key whether you go shallow or wide depth of field.

I ended up getting two of the pana 250s and the 5D III with the 24-105 L series lens. I’ll add more when money becomes available. I had thought the prime lenses would be less expensive but they are not.

The problem I have with some shallow depth of field shots is that the b.g. can be distracting in a beautiful abstract bright graphic kind of way – you end up staring at it which is not the intended effect. It just seems to me that digital cams do not have the subtlety of film the way the b.g. blurs out. It just seems more natural and gradual with film. Also when you get to the point where the nose is in focus and the eyes are blurry it just calls attention to the camera rather than the scene. But I wonder if that is because today’s cameras do not need as much light as in past and therefore less attention is paid to the lighting. I’m also thinking this problem will be more common as the industry moves to LED lighting. LEDs are great in many ways but it is harder to control what gets lit – they just seem to wash everything evenly. I’m really excited about getting a 5D. I was planning on getting a black magic cinema cam but some of my students are into photography and we’ve been doing model shoots so I thought it was time to go DSLR and use it both ways.

Thanks for your help!

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Alright Chris, don’t mean to kick a dead horse but you said that Canon somehow got Cf to perform worse than SD. But in practice on the 5D, according to the link, the CF performs faster than the SD on the 5D.

Now Canon was trying to allow users to use both type of cards. Which is good for anyone who already has a collection of CFs. However the implementation did not work out well because the two card slots are not equally supported (at least according to the article).

Panasonic just came out with a mini version of their P2 cards. If I had a bunch of the very expensive P2 cards I would be a little put off if I couldn’t use them in the next version of their camcorder. Unless of course the new card was significantly faster. Which it’s not.

Also Nikon uses the compact flash cards as well in some of their high end cameras even though they were one of the companies who proposed the XQD format.

All that said it is curious that any high end cam maker does not use the fastest and most reliable tech possible. CF has proven its reliability but it it is long in the tooth.

I also find it strange that so many pieces of high end gear use HDMI instead of SDI HD. SDI and BNC plugs are so much easier to use than HDMI that it should have been the consumer standard as well. This need to come up with consumer standards that are worse than pro standards in today’s marker is misguided.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

I too have trouble keeping track (pun intended) of all my clips of the same flavor. One thing I find useful is to name them with a number sequence.

First go to your event browser and rename all your clips and favorites. For example: One could name your first clip 1 BLUE NET and the first favorite under that clip 1A Blue net the second one 1B Blue net etc.

Then go to your timeline and right clip and choose reveal in event browser. Then you figure out which clip it is and rename the timeline clip the same name by changing it in the index.

It’s way easier to have a number sort then remembering which blue net twisted or blue net zoom in etc you have used before. Some editors can keep all this stuff in their heads like great chess players do. But a good organization system can level the playing field.

The timeline index is very useful to see a list of your clips in the timeline before or instead of zooming in the view.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

[Chris Murphy] “somehow getting CF to perform worse than SD when CF is ancient and inferior in every way compared to SD. “

Do you mean SD to perform worse than CF?

In what way is it inferior other than the possible bent pins?

SanDisk
32GB CompactFlash Memory Card Extreme Pro 600x UDMA

32GB Data Storage Capacity
600x Speed Rating
Read / Write Speed: 90MB/s

32 GB SDHC Memory Card Extreme Pro Class 10 UHS-I

32 GB Data Storage Capacity
Class 10 Speed
Max. Read Speed: 95MB/s
Max. Write Speed: 90MB/s

Not much difference on read/write speed specs.

But obviously the SD slots in the camera (assuming the article is correct) is not taking advantage of the SD’s card’s potential. I had a Nikon for a long time that used a compact card and it neither got damaged but I could see how it might when you are lining up with tiny pins. But I do think the compact card itself is less likely to get lost or damaged. Just seems like a tougher shell. I can’t recall Canon using Sony media.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Ryan. I stayed with compact on my quote request. I really just figured it was physically more solid and less likely to get lost or damaged. But this article ended any second guessing that it was a waste of money. Canon should make ti clearer what the trade off is.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Ryan,
Thanks so much for your input.
I’d be interested in your assignments with students and workflow.
I want to use the 5D, for now, in the studio for model shoots, and single cam one-shot-at-a-time-film-style projects, and for a single cam op to get shots around campus. For activities, documentaries and so forth we’ll go with camcorders.
Is there a link where I can see the characteristics of each lens for this cam? Mainly the field of view of the different choices?
Is auto focus worth considering or, as I assume, is manual focus the norm?
The link you gave me to the onboard monitors look fantastic and seem to really understand the needs of shooting in the field. Not sure I can afford it right now. Are the colors/exposure levels/focus accurate or is it just for framing/composition?
I’ll keep it on my active wish list. I’m debating cutting one of my Panasonic AG-HPX250 P2 HD Handheld Camcorder packages to give me more room budget wise. The 250 package runs about $6000 each. But we are primarily running the video program around these so it’s not an easy decision.
In the studio, we have a very good broadcast monitor and a pro plasma monitor both HDMI and SDI inputs. So we will be using those for now.
I see the 5D has HDMI and A/V out. Would love to get a cordless HDMI out kit but it will have to go on wish list for now. Wish the 5D had SDI out. HDMI can be a pain during a shoot.
Are these the L series you speak of?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=L+series+EF+mount+lenses&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=
This is the kit I’m considering if the 24-105mm lens that comes with it is a good choice:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/847546-REG/Canon_5260B009_EOS_5D_Mark_III.html
It adds $600 over the just the body price but includes this lens that sells for $1500:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/397662-USA/Canon_0344B002AA_24_105mm_f_4L_IS_USM.html
It has the red band around it so it is the L series. I think this will cover a good range in the studio style shoots from close to wide on a subject. It might not be powerful enough for all the outdoor shots a photographer might like nor a prime lens for better film style shots. However, in the studio we have a lot of good lighting so might help compensate for the slower lenses. I’m rationalizing because I need more coin. But if you feel my choice is not the most bang for the buck let me know.
How long does one battery last? In the studio we can even plug-in. Yeah cords are a pain but they are part of the discipline of setting a shot with a production team.
For now I’ve added an extra single charger and 3 batteries for a total of 4 Canon E-6 plus a power cord for long video shoots in studio. I also added the battery grip, which holds two of the batteries. Is this worth it? $275. Adds weight but maybe counterbalances the heavier front end plus we will be doing model shoots so changing to portrait view is a given.
On the media cards, the camera comes with SanDisk –
32GB Extreme SDHC UHS-1 (80MB/s). This is a SD card not a compact flash card. I’ve added one SanDisk 32GB Compact Flash Memory Card Extreme Pro 600x UDMA to the list.
Between the two, how many minutes of video will this give us?
I have a card reader. And we will be shooting in studio or near it so we can transfer the footage and erase.
Plus I’m assuming you can delete bad shots as you go?
The kit comes with an Oben ACM-2400 4-Section Aluminum Monopod. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687350-REG/Oben_ACM_2400_ACM_2400_4_Section_Aluminum_Monopod.html
And we have tripods. Wondering if we should also look for a good Photo tripod.
I’ll hold off in the rail system. Just can’t afford the whole package yet. We have flags and a lot of light control in the studio and for out of studio shoots its as you described. Simpler is better. For now.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Al,

Trying to put package together. I see different lenses at different price point for each of these mm/ranges.

Is this the right 24-105? This comes as part of a kit some of which is ok stuff and some of which is less than the best. The san disc for example is not the pro model.

Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS EF USM AF Lens
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/397662-USA/Canon_0344B002AA_24_105mm_f_4L_IS_USM.html

part of this kit:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/847546-REG/Canon_5260B009_EOS_5D_Mark_III.html

It’s about $600 savings for just the lens which is listed at $1150. But there is another 24-105 at like twice that.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Chris.
So even though Panasonic intended the DVCPROHD to be pro and AVCHD was a replacement for HDV, AVCHD has evolved and DVCPROHD hasn’t?
But the AVCINTRA 100 of the AG-HPX250 should surpass both of these … correct. Full raster, 422 color … I really like the results we are getting with the 250s.
I’ve decided to err on the side of high expectations. I’m going to order two more of the 250s with the 170s as back ups and loaners (the school already had the 170s when I got there; I added 3 250s since then).
If I can afford one or two of AC-90s, I might try those out too. They seem like great run and gun cams with modern backside illuminated 3mos and from what you say about AVCHD (actually AVCCAM in this unit). We are talking ¼” sensors however and less than stellar manual controls.
But my priority is the 250s plus a Canon 5D package. So I’ll have to crutch the numbers.
I’ve been doing this for 8 years and have lost very few units to accidents, theft or deliberate abuse. I’ve also had this very democratic everyone participates equally approach. So I’ll keep my fingers crossed and keep an eye out.
Since there is more riding on proper care, if I get the care-less or hater vibes then they will loose the privilege of using the gear. Never used this type of discipline before but I think it’s a good step to allow students to be exposed to the potential of this level of production. I still have consumer level cams as an option. Just doesn’t feel right to weaken a program to cater to the worst behavior.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

call them and they’ll give you a download link. FCP update messed with compatibility from older images on the disks.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.