[Chase Canadé]

Hey Craig,
thanx for the link.

It was definitly a good read.

I can certainly attest to many businesses in my local area that fit the grinder or bottome feeder catagory… too many perhaps. Seems that is all ive run into for many a year now.

I thought by studing graphics – vfx etc and then seeing the Jobs listing here on CC i could climb my way out of the crab basket so to speak – i’m really sick of the circle jerks and want to make my escape so to speak.

Hence i’ve been looking hard at ways around or over what seems to surround me.

Being a single person here – with just a oomp and some apps and very little gear… i have to do what i can with what i have. And with many locally trying to hold me down orkeep that thumb pressed down on me. And i know it is happening – one would have to be blind or a complete idiot not to see it or realize it.

as mentioned – I’m looking to do what i can. but in saying that, i really don’t want to get screwed over either. or as it wass mentioned above by another taken advantage of like on craigslist just because i’m new to the industry. Hungry or perhaps even eager to get started.

I’ve run other businesses in the past with great success. I was making 6 figures with my last one, even still, Money has never been a driving force for me though i do love what money can buy. It’s [money] always been secondary to doing a high quality job and doing something i like or love doing. I’ve always been in the creative field one way or another. I’ve always started at the bottom with little or next to nothing and climbed the ladder.

Though admitedly – i’ve neve had a bunch of jerks for what evr reason constanly thwarting my rise as has taken place since my last business venture. Be that as it may – i intend on overcoming this slight wall of opposition or what ever it is some way – what ever way i can.

I’m hopeing i can achieve that start of climbing beyond the circle jerks circle or at least start something worth while by doing some jobes listed here at CC.

While money isn’t a driving force – it is nice to make some while doing what i want to do.

any further advice under that premise and given those conditions?

Figure in like i mentoned – a single creative talent which i know i have (talent) limited funds – limited gear – and many of it older pro gear for stills – some home made gear.

I’m familiar with 2D graphic software – like PS Illustrator and others.
3D i’m still learning –

love vfx and definitly audio creation. background in concert lighting etc etc which i know helps.

but space is limited on my end. funds are defintly limited. and locally – the push is for me not to succeed. Or prevent me from climbing the ladder once again…

They play this “zone ” game here amongst the local networks/circles.

Aside from re-locating (which i definitly want to do just to get the heck away from these limiting factors) and funds prevent me from leaving.

point being – this is all i have at the moment CC that is and what jobs are offered. I don’t want to get in over my head by excepting a job i can’t do – – and i know better than to do so. And further more most higher paying gigs are for very experienced personel or college grads in the field or those with high end gear and a lot of it.

so… ?? what advice can you give someone like me in my position – to over throw the opposition and gain head way in the industry?

tia
chase

[Chase Canadé]

i do understand what you mean… from a marketing point of view about charities… i do…

Bottom Feeders and “Grinders”

would you mind defining those terms?
– i think i know what you mean by Bottom Feeders – but not sure as i know a couple ways i can be used and meant.
Grinders – i’ve never heard that term used before
– except the kind you eat. (hoggies – subs – grinders)

What is the market of Grinders? and Bottom Feeders?

[Chase Canadé]

Hey Craig –

aaah – now what your saying makes more sense to me.

Perhaps the terms CC used to describe the jobs listed is not the best. Perhaps low production or Small Jobs or something of that nature would be more befitting a discripter…

But i do fully understand your point now – don’t low ball or get into low ball production pricing that under cuts your production cost needs and of course allow enough profit to take care of future marketing – and hopefully growth.

One can except small jobs as well as larger jobs but preferably target your marketing towards repeat business and given what some have said that doesn’t go beyond your production capabilities.

Love the advice on not taking the what the customer states or job discripter states at face value – especially for pricing. Always know exactly what it’s going to take to accomplish what the customer is truly after – and price accordingly.

A lot is common sense stuff but – easily over looked just starting out.

As far as charities – i really don’t know any that i’d even want to deal with – as far as i’m conserned anyway… from what i’ve seen – their all such bs. They may have a great logo and the logo means well but behind the scenes … i best not say much more.

And i’m in no way religous – i want nothing to do with people that are. They are worse thatn the chatities from what i’ve seen. or maybe they’re equals …??

My biggest mistake thus far has been not gettting it in writing. being new to a lot of this – i’m eager to show what i can do at times – i’m sure a lot of people have been there.

That’s been a hard lesson to learn for me – i pretty trusting almost to a fault and as stated – This is all still new to me – and the more i learn, the more eager i get – anxious even.
I see a comp or someone doing this or that in a production situation – be it webmastering – AE – Sound engineering what ever – especially via software with some great gear and i want jump in on it. It’s really tuff to curb the “let me do it or let me show you how it’s easy” for me at the moment
– but i am learning to esepecially after the last one – they took real advantage of me… which was kinda an eye opening experience in a way – i did take some postives from the experience so not all was lost.

live and learn as they say.
and now i’m ready to get payed – so i can be around another day.
Beside i want some new gear and new software… and clothes… and a new car…

Thanx guys for all your help – really great advice!

thanx
chase

[Chase Canadé]

Hey Craig – i see what you mean about the low paying job Albatros.

and i looked over your rate calculator. Seems like a good one for just about any business.

Seems i have a lot to mull over and consider.

Let ask you though about bread and butter jobs – like the one mentioned – $25 bucks for a graphic file conversion didn’t seem bad to me.
While waiting on the Rolls Royce jobs to come in
– what do you do for filler jobs?

$150 for an background removal of 40 seconds didn’t seem too bad – to me of course. (that was another CC Job i looked at) though i recomended they consider another option which the $150 might better serve for a better end result.

As far as forms – are there standard forms you or anyone would recomend for either video or graphics or audio work
– or things that your work forms should definitly be sure to state to protect you and/or protect the client?

thanx

[Chase Canadé]

A belated thanx – i’ve had to refer back to this post everytime i forget where the log out is here at CC …
( i belong to several sites)

I catch myself saying – “Now where the heck did he say it was…???”
as i just had to do once again… lol

so thanx and sorry to take so long in saying so.

chase

[Chase Canadé]

Here is the corrected url on that CC Job offer link i posted above

https://jobs.creativecow.net/job/864451

I’m sure it’s gone by now but – it was one of the jobs i was seeing that promted me to post this thread and ask your advice on how the do’s and don’ts.

[Chase Canadé]

yeah i kinda thought the mentioning of the 10 to 25 dollar job offer would get a slight rise…

Actually it wasn’t on Craigslist – it was here on CC and in the CC newsleter a couple weeks back.
though i agree about Craigslist – so many scams claiming jobs it’s unbelievable – i refuse to answer anymore on Craigslist…

Here is the link to the job offer: CC Job Offer 864451′>CC Job Offer 864451

and seeing it again it was actually an offer of $5 to 25 dollars not 10…

Keep in mind as stated – I’m just starting out. I’m just trying to get started… I learned everything i know from CC and VCP and CGArena and dozens of other sites and my own experimenting with apps. I don’t have a piece of paper from college – though that doesn’t hinder my thinking of my abilities…
– it seems to hinder houses doing the hiring. So I thought hey 15 to 25 bucks to do this i should be able to knock this out pretty easily – though this is my thought sight unseen of the job and it would add to a port and a bunch of these could lead to bigger things.

But… i thought well before you do anything – ask the Pro’s at CC the do’s and don’t. I’ve been screwed before – actually a couple times well, okay, i’ll admit it, it’s been a few times doing all the work and not getting paid or handed a token and a thanx for all the help or work i did with me standing there going but… but… you said… and leaving empty handed.

Anyhow – the job offers for me to start out looked promising here at CC and some people have posted more than once in the job offer area for work to be done. Which may be a good sign that e=they actually pay for the work once completed.

And there are other offers like the one mentioned – one for Audio work i know i can do. Though i really don’t know how to protect a 30/40 second audio piece – they are going to want to hear a final take and to hear it – you have to give it to them…

VFX – i would love to do and hope to graduate to VFX after proving myself on some smaller stuff – even if it is just converting a file format. or Re-doing some audio etc etc. Little stuff can add up to a nice port – at least i’m thinking so…

If i’m going about this wrong chime in…

It was mentioned about getting things in writting – I’ve learned a hand shake isn’t worth squat anymore the hard way… so…

Are there standard or genaric forms for diescribing the job or work to be done – the revision or first approval mayge?(sorry I forgot what he called it in the above post) and then once the revisions are made the final exceptance – are their generic forms for this and are they different for graphics work or video or audio or all the same forms can be used for all?

I’m familiar with model releases etc etc – so I’m thinking there must be a generic form out there for the afore mentioned.

I don’t mean to sound completely nieve or like an idiot here but each industry is different
– I’d rather start out doing things right from the start is why i’m asking so many questions. Some may seem moronic but… it’s good to get views and opinions from those that have been doing it for a while and learned from their mistakes. Even on some of the things some people would over look…

You all know – you’ve been there done that – You’ve graduated beyond you’re up and running – i don’t know and i’m sitting on the bench – and i don’t want my knowledge to go stale
– so all i can do is ask – so thanx for the advice, I mean that.

chase

[Chase Canadé]

Great tips and advice – I’ll be honest, some things mentioned i wouldn’t have thought of, nor knew exactly how to protect myself or scale job pricing.

I’m not a production team at this point ready to do large scale productions. But i did feel – if i do this it may lead to eventually either growing on my own to a larger business – and/or – having a good client base to join another team. Adding to my port as you mention above.

Further more as mentioned – i’m small – just starting – looking to start with smaller jobs listed in the Low Pay Job listings here at CC. I want to get a feel for how things work – a system for getting payed – the work flow of creative works and working with clients even on a small scale. To me, with out a house to do all this for me adn just being handed the work, this seems a great way to not only start but to gain first hand a further insight and understanding of the business as a whole and how to go about doing business like this line.

Let me ask a couple direct questions.

Given that i’m going solo on this…

Are you suggesting 1/3 deposit even on a say a job listed here at CC that by example that say only offers $10 to $25 dollars for the project?

For online jobs here at CC – or i presume anywhere, but for now here at CC… and not to be totally nieve – but wanting to structure a small business venture like this correctly…

Would you suggest a pay-pal account for collecting payments such as deposits etc etc. or just use a personal account and perhaps have funds wired or electronically transfered or some similar means?

Or does a Pay-Pal account as a payment method suggest to the client or aquate to a client a sense of un-proffesionalism? if so or perhaps even if not, Is there a better suggested method payment for online work that is suggested and would suggest to a client that you are more professional or handle things professionaly…

I could be wrong about the Pay Pal thing but i usuially aquate it with ebay