[Charlie Austin]

[Herb Sevush] “If and when they do that, then you can make your argument about X having tracks. I would still prefer consistent alignment to consistent colors, but that’s just me (and probably every UI designer who ever lived.)”

Hey, I’m not arguing. lol I totally get where you’re coming from… In a previous life I was a post audio mixer, I started cutting audio on Otari Studio Vision. I had to organize mixed up messy tracks from every editor in town. And If they were never going to update X, I’d be right there with ya. But I don’t think they’ve even scratched the surface here. Again, allowing you to group roles, assuming they do, will do exactly what you want just by clicking a button or something.

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Herb Sevush] “First of all, for me, the use of tracks is totally different for audio and video. Audio is a layered system, it’s harmonic at it’s essence. Video is about juxtaposition. Tracks allow you both organizational and editorial options for both simultaneously.

Sorry to jump in here, but I think where they’re going with X is going to allow you to do that, it really isn’t “trackless” and it’s not as limiting as some people think. I’ve mentioned some things that would make audio work more like I’m used to, which is maybe what you’re looking for too. They could do some other things which would eliminate the need for fixed tracks with video as well. A right click selection to “always leave on top” or something like that. There are a lot of possibilities here….

[Herb Sevush] I don’t quite expect the universe to be organized according to my druthers. Still the argument that I can F’n well go elsewhere does not quite cut it.”

Having just been playing with MC 6 and Pr 6, I agree. I haven’t lost hope yet. 🙂

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Herb Sevush] “So can you see the dialogue tracks at the same time – do they come up in a different color, and can you leave the highlighted colors on as you work?”

You can leave the highlight on as you work, (hell you can trim stuff while the sequence is playing…) and highlight as many things as you want, but currently it’s only one color. I’m hoping (and have suggested) they’ll add the ability to use different highlight colors… don’t see why they won’t. Since I’m usually only messing with one “stem’ at a time, it’s not a big deal for me though. If they add more color options, and the option to group roles and maybe choose how they’re stacked, I honestly can’t see anything else, at least organizationally, I’d need… for audio anyway.

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Herb Sevush] “So what track is audio EFX on ?”

Right here:

One click to visually isolate, or solo, whatever I want…

Hopefully they’ll add the ability to group roles, then it’ll be even easier to see different “tracks”

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Craig Seeman] “Alex does a good job explaining the intent at least.”

He does. I think that FCP X *does* have tracks though, they just move around and you don’t need to “patch” stuff anymore. Plus, it’s nice to be able to work with this:

When what’s really going on, more or less one keystroke away, is this:

Looks like tracks to me. 🙂

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Shane Ross] “I didn’t say it wasn’t aimed at professionals. I said it wasn’t aimed at my specific market in Hollywood. Because it lacks pretty much every feature we need. EDL support (yes, we still work with EDLs and deliver EDLs), OMF or AAF support for DAWs (Apple didn’t do it…third parties did). Capture from non-firewire tape based decks. Oh…yeah, they rely on third parties to solve that too. It is designed for people to do everything INSIDE the app, including color correction (Yeah, speaking of THAT tool…aimed at beginners, not professionals) and audio mixing.

I’m not evangelizing here, just trying to correct what I see as misinformation. Third parties or not, you can do all that stuff with FCP X. I’m not saying it’s seamless yet, it absolutely isn’t, but it’s do-able if you need to. I happen to think it’s going to get better, and I say this as someone who needs this stuff as well.

[Shane Ross] This app isn’t aimed at us…it is aimed at OTHER editing professions. Sure, a lot of people have gotten it to work for their specific broadcast markets…and with the aid of third parties who fill the gaps Apple couldn’t be bothered dealing with, some in my neck of the woods have gotten that to work. But it’s all a shoe horn. FCP 7 did ALL of this, and a lot more. It did everything I needed, everything a lot of people needed. But then FCX comes out lacking a majority of what I need…and even with the updates they have done, they still lack a majority of what I need done. Again…relying on third parties to fix what they cannot be bothered with.

Well… first, I don’t see it as a bad thing that you need to go to third parties to do some of this stuff. Not everyone needs it, and if all ya gotta do is spend a few extra buck to get the added functionality you require, assuming it works well, who cares? Keeps the cost of adding seats down.

Second, I suppose I’m looking at FCPX with a slightly different perspective. X is really a version 1 application, and in comparison, version 1 of the original FCP did exactly *none* of the things you listed above. Everything was a shoehorned kludge. Everything. I was trying it out then cuz’ i liked the timeline/interface better than my Avid, and all I heard was pretty much exactly what everyone is saying now about X. But I liked it, and cut some stuff on it, and somehow managed to make it work and finish a spot. That was in Feb 2000, about 10 months after FCP came out. Not long after that I got the company I was at to start switching over, other companies started switching and now, FCP is a de facto standard. I’ve got the exact same vibe now with X.

I guess I just get annoyed when folks (in general, not specifically you BTW) rag on Apple, when all they’re really doing is exactly what they did with the original Final Cut. We’ll see how it works this time I guess… 🙂

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Shane Ross] “I’m in Hollywood, so I’m part of the market FCX isn’t aimed at. I highly doubt FCX will ever see the proliferation that FCP 7 did in this town.”

Had to randomly chime in here… You may or may not be right about the proliferation part, but I’d respectfully disagree about X not being “aimed” at professionals. It’s absolutely not like the fairly easy switch people made from Avid to FC7, and there are some features they still need to fix/add. But as far as actually editing, it’s as “pro” as you want it to be. 🙂 The biggest deal for me is being able to easily send elements out to someplace like New Wave for finish, and I don’t think that’s too far off. In my worthless opinion anyway. 😉

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Christopher Key] “Some of what I’m hearing sounds kinda scary – especially no mixer? How do you precisely control multiple audio tracks? As far as computer editing goes I started in audio and then moved into video editing – and I like to have a lot of control over audio so I hope that’s possible in FCPX. “

I’m coming from a similar place as you… Started in audio, was a post production mixer for years, and moved to video. FWIW, I really like working with audio in X.

I think the Roles concept, while still in it’s infancy and sort of a paradigm shift, is incredibly powerful. I think of roles kind of like mix groups. Combined with compound clips it’s really easy to “mix”. Assign VO, DIA MX FX, and whatever subroles you want, get your rough mix with keyframes, stick whatever role(s) you want in a compound clip and change the overall level, add fx, whatever. You can’t ride a fader in real time yet, but I’m sure that’s coming. Like anything else, you can change levels while the sequence is playing… Unlike anything else you can edit – trim, select clips and change levels etc – while the sequence is playing. There’s a ton of room for improvements, bug fixes etc, but I’m digging the direction they’r going with it.

I’m really looking forward to more Role functionality such as grouping like roles in the timeline etc. I really don’t miss tracks at all. It does take a while to wrap your head around how things work or don’t work in X, but once you get it it’s very cool. I actually don’t even use the primary storyline/magnetic timeline… doesn’t suit my needs but it’s nice to have the option to not use it. Anyway… learn all the NLE’s… they all have free trials so why not right?

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.” ~

[Charlie Austin]

[Mark Dobson] “To denigrate people, refer to them as a small cluster of fans, who have taken the time to become proficient in this new software, to refer to it a ‘movie hero’ says more about a lack of objectivity than anything else.

And referring to FCPX as imovie on steroids doesn’t actually move the argument on from those early days back in June 2011.”

I heartily agree. For folks on *both* sides of the fence. 😉 It’s like the modern version of the classic Mac vs. PC “debate”. lol

All i know is that I’m using X as much as I can because I like cutting in it. The quirks that sometimes slow me down are more than offset by the speed gained, by me, in other areas. I can move stuff back and forth from FCP 7 fairly easily, I can spit out EDL’s (EDL-X is awaiting approval on the app store) and X2Pro should solve the audio export end (handles!) with their next version in a few weeks. But, hey… if I need to go to Pr or MC, no biggie… I know ’em all. It ain’t rocket surgery. 🙂

So to the the OP… learn ’em all. Ya never know right? Well… except iMovie. I hate iMovie. 😉

[Charlie Austin]

[Neil Goodman] “but really i dont think anyone in LA is taking it seriously yet.”

Um… I’m in L.A. and I take it seriously. So there’s one. 🙂