[Charlie Austin]

[Chris Harlan] “Well, I can do that. After summer, lets have a long lunch sometime. My treat. We’ll bring our laptops and bounce the thing around a bit. I’d really enjoy that.”

Deal. 🙂 Sadly my Original MB Air won’t run X, but we can figure something out… On a related note…

Remember that project from hell I was talking about in my earlier post? Well, it’s taking FCP7 4-6 minutes to render a 10 second composited section. Every time I move something, I need to wait that long to see it. So… I copied that section into a new sequence, and imported it to X. Ya know… just to see the difference.

It just played. A little jumpy on a couple bits, but even the rendering only took seconds, so it didn’t force me to stop working at all. But… I gotta keep it in 7, so back to the salt mines I go. *sigh* 🙁

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Walter Soyka] “My interpretation of Charlie’s point (and please do correct me if I’m wrong) was that FCPX may not yet be accepted, but it is right on the cusp of readiness for broadcast.”

Correctamundo. 🙂 Really the only thing keeping me from going all in is that I need to be able to deliver finishing elements (EDL, AAF etc) that the most finicky of post houses can deal with. It’s real close.

[Walter Soyka] It strikes me as a difference in perspective. Aindreas, in his position, must apparently work on whichever system is used in-house by his clients. Charlie, in his, can apparently choose the system he wants to work with. As such, Aindreas and Charlie may experience vastly different outcomes for using the same commercially unpopular tool in their respective markets. They can have different opinions and both still be right.”

Also true, the only caveat being what I noted above. I don’t know if X will ever be able to do proper edit to tape/machine control, so if that’s a big part of ones workflow then it’s probably not gonna work. But for us, 90 percent of the elements we get from the studios now are HD files on drives, and we havent layer anything off to tape in at least a year, so that’s a non issue. For us. Anyway… my point has always been that from a purely editorial perspective, I prefer X over 7 or Pr or MC. No question about that at all.

What drives me nuts are 2 things. First being the whole “it’s a toy” train of thought. It’s not. I can do things in X that I really can’t do in 7. And I can cut faster in it, composite giant piles of video just like any other NLE, easily move those piles around the timeline, and do much finer audio adjustments than are possible in 7. I’m a former mixer and I’m tellin’ ya… roles make tracks totally unnecessary – and they are still in their infancy. Of course I’m just some random guy saying so, but I wish i could sit down with Herb and Chris and others and show them why I think so.

That brings me to the other thing that drives me nuts. When people say “I work this way in 7 and I can’t in X so I can’t use it and it isn’t a viable choice.” And honestly, for folks like Aindreas who need to work on client systems, or have technical needs that X doesn’t meet, that’s a valid point – though I don’t think it’s reason enough to write it off just yet… That’s just me though. 😉 No, what drives me to keep blathering on here is that – as an editor who’s’ been cutting all day, every day for 15 years, first on Avid and then on FCP, I felt exactly the same way when I first tried to use FCP X. Hated it. Even after I used it a few times I hated it. So I totally understand where folks are coming from and I wish i could reach out through the inter tubes and show people what changed my mind, and why maybe they should change theirs. X isn’t the fastest NLE on earth. X isn’t throwing out 100 years of editing conventions. X still drives me nuts at times, but it’s pretty damn good. And it’s gonna get better.

Well, in my ‘some random guy on the internet’ opinion anyway… 😉

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Chris Harlan] “Sigh. I just don’t have the time, Charlie. It’s a value judgement. It might be fun and it might be useful, but as I’m watching things move around town, I’m just not seeing it getting much traction. You like it. Folks like John Davidson like it. But I just talked with another cable Network that’s going all Premiere for promos. I’m not feeling any real incentive to get on board with X.”

I can understand that, I might feel differently as well if I were freelancing. If I needed to edit to tape I’d feel differently. And honestly, at the end of the day I’m gonna need to get the rest of the editors where I work on board. It’s not a done deal. Funny thing is, when you say:

[Chris Harlan] “The thing is, I like the way I work now,”

That’s exactly how I feel about X now, warts and all. I took over a key art reel we’re cutting from another of our editors today. It’s an FCP 7 project, and needs to stay that way because it might have to bounce back to the original editor at some point. 1080p HDTV sequence, but with loads of stills, stuff pulled from the web, all sorts of random mixed audio and video formats. It is painful. Rendering for 8 minutes at a time, because I needed to move a 15 second layer of video. rendering audio. Oh, I need to solo something. Let me carefully trace a line down the timeline to see which track it’s on. Oh, wait… I don’t want to hear the clip right before it on the same track… guess I need to move it, or disable it. No big deal, except 5 minutes ago I was just cutting in an app where I can highlight the clip, solo it, add other clips to the solo group, and never stop playback. Render audio? no need. Spend 2 hours transcoding HD mp4’s to ProRes so I can cut with them? Screw that. I like the new way I work now. 🙂

[Chris Harlan] I’m open to sound argument, though, and like it when I hear concrete specifics about FCP X’s virtues. It just gets weird when folks make these majestic pronouncements about X, like it being faster than anything including cheetahs or that its metadata underpinnings are tied into some 23rd century technology that anchors it to the heart of the future and is the door to all known universes. AND that I won’t truly understand either of these facts until I spend six months studying it and rewiring my neural pathways so that I “get it.” And, no questioning or criticizing until then. Sadly, that’s the same argument cults often employ.

Honestly, I totally agree with you there. As I’ve said before, It’s the 90’s Mac vs. PC argument redux. Pointless. Every NLE has strong points and weak points. I happen to think Pr and MC are big, cluttered messes, but that’s just my opinion. That’s why I started using FCP 1 back in ’99. But I’m not gonna criticize someone else’s choice, or try to convince them of the error of their ways because they don’t use what I like. All I’ve ever tried to do here and elsewhere is say that I really like X, imperfect as it is. For what I do, and for me it is awesome. And FWIW I’m not just doing simple A/B editing. I really want to open that clusterf*ck of a sequence I’m cutting in 7 in X just to see the difference, but it’ll probably just make we want to keep it in there and then I’ll be stuck with it. Yeah, it’s one of *those* projects. 😉

[Chris Harlan] I’m certainly open to it in the future. Three things might get me to hand my brain in for 6 months of trial and error–a mixer, color-coded roles (so that I can get a strong visual of where things sit on my timeline), and the ability to manually save both backups and alternate versions. Oh, four–add the ability to export a range.”

Well, I.m betting that’s all coming, and honestly, I don’t think it’d take 6 months, it took me about a week to get my head around the interface, a little longer to learn the important keyboard shortcuts and figure out a workflow that I could deal with. I avoid storylines pretty much, so I’ve had to adapt to using keyframes and fade handles rather than just throwing fade transition onto clips, but that’s really the only thing I miss. And I don’t miss it too much. I find new fun things every day, and by fun I mean they let me work faster. 🙂

[Chris Harlan] And FWIW, I don’t know what others mean, but when I talk of FCP X’s inflexibility, I’m referring to its locked down interface–the inability to put windows where you want, the inability to have multiple open timelines, etc.”

I get ya, it would be nice to break out windows the way you want rather than the 2 or 3 setups they give you. I guess the bottom line is, if ya get some time, just cut something in X as though you have no choice. That’s kind of what I did. Like: “well, this thing sucks, but I gotta figure out how to use it under pressure because it’s all I’ve got.” That’s what I did, and it turned out it didn’t suck. OK, *some* things suck, but all in all, it’s pretty great.

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Aindreas Gallagher] “I come off *resplendently* as a dick 😉 – repeatedly. (please ignore arsey FCP engineer quote above…)

Done.. didn’t mean to rub ya the wrong way. I’m right though. LOL

[Aindreas Gallagher] half suspect I haven’t given the software enough time of day – makes for a dodgy perspective.

You really do need to force yourself to get past the perceived differences. For one, I’d suggest avoiding the primary story line to start. Cut everything in as connected clips, it works almost exactly like FCP 7 and other NLE’s if you do that. There’s a lot of really cool stuff in there… once you get past the “WTF is this?!?!” phase.

[Aindreas Gallagher] but there’s a real bull mood over here. herd says no.”

True. The herd said exactly the same thing about the original FCP in 1999. They were wrong. We’ll see what happens this time. 😉

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Michael Gissing] “I know the game has started elsewhere but Bill needs a reminder that we are far from anything remotely conclusive about FCPX’s role in features & broadcast. Potential yes but long way to go.”

Once again, I agree. Hell, I still can’t use it exclusively, mostly due to issues relating to sending elements out to someone like you for finishing. It’s real close, but there’s still work to do. I guess what keeps me blathering on here, is that it drives me crazy hearing people talk about how X won’t work, is iMovie, isn’t professional, throws out years of editing conventions etc.

The reason that drives me crazy is because I felt exactly the same way When X first came out. I was horrified. Tried to use it halfheartedly a few times and was convinced it sucked. Then, I literally forced myself to really try it, start a real project with a real deadline and a real client. I had to work through things that made me throw up my hands in frustration in earlier trials. I resisted the urge to just transfer the project back to FCP 7 daily. And now, all I can say is that cutting in X is fun. It just gets out of my way and lets me cut. So… I selfishly want it to succeed in the biz I work in, features and broadcast.

I’m an editor, I can cut on anything. But I’d prefer to move forward with FCPX. Thus… my ranting. 😉

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Aindreas Gallagher] “Dandy. call it out mate – call out the involved studios and shows, that’s very worth while –

I happily quoted a BBC factual editor a while back who was pitching a flag for an exclusive FCPX doco site in london. off a chat like this over at fcpx.co –

its all good.

but, to be fair, in the end, judgement will eventually be called on this software and the whole secondary/roles/connected whatever

I think its us because our nose is at the grindstone – we get to have every wrinkle at the worst possible moment.

however – if judgements on the scale you are referencing are actually happening at major studios with major projects – you really should lay that out.

that could have me instantly back at the app for the simplest bread hungry reasons.

(and I really have spent half-decent time at the app)”

Sorry if I came off as a dick, that really wasn’t my intention. I guess the “Walmart” comment just sort of rubbed me the wrong way. 🙂 And to be fair, FCPX, much as I like it, really is very immature at this point in many areas. But it’s really a great tool, and once you “get it”, which doesn’t take that long if you force yourself to, it’s a joy to work with. Seriously, it makes me smile daily. Also, it drives me nuts, but only because I can see where they’re going with a lot of the features, and wish they’d hurry up and get there. Anyway… my apologies if I was sort of a jerk back there. 🙂

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Michael Gissing] “[Bill Davis] “Game. Set. Match.”

I haven’t had the first serve of a Broadcast FCPX job going through my facility to date so the game hasn’t even started yet Bill. I know you’re enthusiastic but the game has a long way to go yet.”

You are correct. Actually, I think the game has started, but the players are still just starting to warm up. 😉 In my case, X has only been useable since 10.0.4… And I still feel like I’m walking on eggshells at times, but it’s worth it. For me anyway…

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Shane Ross] “Liking it is one thing. USING it on those “important movie and television shows” is another.

Have you?”

Yep. Got some spots on the air and in theaters as we speak. I don’t use it exclusively yet, there are a few things that need to happen before I can, but I’d like to. I’ll be the first to admit that X still needs some work and functionality, but I really do prefer it to FCP 7.

Also, all due respect to Bill, the “game, set, match” comment doesn’t help. Nor does the whole “new paradigm” narrative. It’s not a new paradigm, it’s just a new NLE with a different interface, IMHO.

I’m not trying to “win” anything here, Just dispel misconceptions. If X doesn’t work for someone for technical or personal preference reasons, fine. But I have issues with people who loudly proclaim it’s not a “professional” app. That’s horseshit.

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Aindreas Gallagher] “…But the thrust seems to be that by distributing 299 dollar single style wallmart sales in a one off event to a (lets guess the number) large scale, that Apple have then fundamentally shifted the craft and debate, and constructed a novel, and utterly new, editing paradigm – in that case I’m not sure I see it…

it near absolutely rejects almost all held practise – including its predecessor. It is nearly entirely a creation of cupertino fancy…

barely any paid editors of factual, narrative and corporate across america and europe have the slightest visible truck with the connected clips, secondary storylines, non-sync detached audio gameshow…

the point ultimately is – why should anyone that comprises any element of paid professional practise twist their entire head around to look at, nevermind execute with this thing?…

(small wave to secondary storyline/connected clip joke logic)…

are the three million unseen FCPX bane men going to rise from the basement of editing gotham and slay us? for our one percent preference for intellectually thorough and consistent software?

Are we bad just to say FCPX is simply a slightly dodgy mess and good luck with that?
“

Wow. So Let me see if I can sum up… “I haven’t really used FCPX, nor has anyone I know, but I’ve read all sorts of bad things about it, and there are no job postings for it on some mailing list. Therefore, I do not like it, and FCPX is not a truly professional NLE.”

Hey, if you don’t like it, that’s fine. But you also seem to be intimating that anyone who does use, or god forbid actually *prefer* FCPX is somehow not really professional. Am I reading that correctly?

If not, what is it exactly you are trying to say? In any case… here’s my rebuttal: I am an award winning professional editor, I work with big, important movie studios on big, important movies and television shows and I like FCPX. It is great. 🙂

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Shane Ross] “an AAF/OMF to an audio mixer (with tracks organized in a way that makes it easier on them, not mixed dialog and SFX and music…audio mixers DO work in tracks), “

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is soon to be a non issue..in a few weeks hopefully, an X timeline like this:

Exports to protools like this:

All split out nicely automatically. So… AAF… essentially done. EDL’s… done. Few more biggies to go and then it all comes down to personal preferences. 🙂

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~