[Bob Bonniol]

It might almost be easier to actually project the wireframe onto the real car (thus including the audience’s perspective on the trick) rather than dealing with pulling a post camera composite live…. But both really come from the same place in a way.

First you must have a good model of the car in 3D. It would be quite surprising if the client didn’t already have detailed 3D data for the car. Then it’s a question of precisely locating your real camera angle vis the car, and camera matching that in your 3D renders. It’s ALL about knowing that camera position exactly, the focus and depth info precisely, and to avoid tremendous hassles it’s pretty critical to have the camera position locked off. Then you feed that data to your virtual camera in a good 3D app (say Softimage XSI, Maya, or Lightwave) It IS possible to derive camera position data for match moving in 3D from automated camera rigs, but the camera rigs are fairly big, and very expensive. Also you would have to have that move data before rendering, so you’d have to have the system in the venue, with the staging and the car, BEFORE you create the graphics.

So a fixed position eliminates all that hassle. After that it’s just math. We have mapped alot of scenic objects with projected textures before in live environments with essentially the same technique. In that case you replace the camera position with a projector and project the render directly onto the object. It requires first projecting a guide grid on the object to have a map for predistorting the projected texture. Conversely you could use a 3D enabled media server (like The Hippotizer from Green Hippo, or the MBox Extreme from PRG) to map your footage directly onto the live object (in this case the car). Cirque Du Soleil is using this 3D capability in the Hippotizer to map video onto many moving scenic objects in their new Beatles show in Vegas (for instance), and the effect works well. We are using the Hippo capability to track multiple automated moving screen surfaces in Sinatra at the London Palladium. So this is not uncharted territory. The hard thing is the complex shape of the car, but again it’s been done.

If yous want more info on this give our studio in Seattle a call (206) 399-8938 and we can discuss how it might happen and if we can help you. We might also be able to recommend the right vendors for providing the right gear to pull it off effectively live.

Cheers,
Bob Bonniol

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader

[Bob Bonniol]

It might almost be easier to actually project the wireframe onto the real car (thus including the audience’s perspective on the trick) rather than dealing with pulling a post camera composite live…. But both really come from the same place in a way.

First you must have a good model of the car in 3D. It would be quite surprising if the client didn’t already have detailed 3D data for the car. Then it’s a question of precisely locating your real camera angle vis the car, and camera matching that in your 3D renders. It’s ALL about knowing that camera position exactly, the focus and depth info precisely, and to avoid tremendous hassles it’s pretty critical to have the camera position locked off. Then you feed that data to your virtual camera in a good 3D app (say Softimage XSI, Maya, or Lightwave) It IS possible to derive camera position data for match moving in 3D from automated camera rigs, but the camera rigs are fairly big, and very expensive. Also you would have to have that move data before rendering, so you’d have to have the system in the venue, with the staging and the car, BEFORE you create the graphics.

So a fixed position eliminates all that hassle. After that it’s just math. We have mapped alot of scenic objects with projected textures before in live environments with essentially the same technique. In that case you replace the camera position with a projector and project the render directly onto the object. It requires first projecting a guide grid on the object to have a map for predistorting the projected texture. Conversely you could use a 3D enabled media server (like The Hippotizer from Green Hippo, or the MBox Extreme from PRG) to map your footage directly onto the live object (in this case the car). Cirque Du Soleil is using this 3D capability in the Hippotizer to map video onto many moving scenic objects in their new Beatles show in Vegas (for instance), and the effect works well. We are using the Hippo capability to track multiple automated moving screen surfaces in Sinatra at the London Palladium. So this is not uncharted territory. The hard thing is the complex shape of the car, but again it’s been done.

If yous want more info on this give our studio in Seattle a call (206) 399-8938 and we can discuss how it might happen and if we can help you. We might also be able to recommend the right vendors for providing the right gear to pull it off effectively live.

Cheers,
Bob Bonniol

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader

[Bob Bonniol]

Definitely provided by either XL Video or Creative Technologies. Most likely some O-Lite 6mm and probably some O-Lite 3mm, both from Barco. Content most likely served via Doremi V1HD using Barco Encore for source blending and stitching.

Way beyond HD res and aspect when taken together. Only way to do that is with Encore, Vista Montage (or Spyder), and perhaps 2 or 3 other things (blended Hippotiser HD, Watchout, or Wings Platinum).

EXTREMELY heavy. No way you’re flying that stuff in a theatre without lots of chain motors, or similiar automated flying system (schonberg, Scenic Technologies winches, etc). VERY expensive. Depending on size you need, probably between 30k and 100k a week.

We’ve got a ton of Barco O-Lite 6mm on Sinatra at the London Palladium, and also a bunch out with Nickelback right now. Good stuff.

John Wiseman at XL Video’s LA office could get specific info for you:

Tel?818?765?7700?Fax?818?765?7575
jwiseman@xlvideo.com http://www.xlvideo.com <https://www.xlvideo.com/>

Best,
Bob Bonniolo

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader

[Bob Bonniol]

Thanks Jim… we’re going to try that out now… We’d moved on to other parts of the show, but the time has come to sort this out.

[Bob Bonniol]

Stuart !!!! How are you ? Where are you ? Diving somewhere exotic I hope !

The Holland America thing came out really good… way better than it should have given the time frame and the crazy chase all over Florida we did !

Thanks again for being a great DP for us there.

Cheers,
Bob Bonniol

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader

[Bob Bonniol]

My most heartfelt condolances my friend… I only recently laid to rest our massively dated Matrox Digisuite running Premiere 6.x… She was also a willing nag, who with a heartfelt thump and a kind word managed to chug along at real time for goin on 6 or better years.

Now we face another, similiar watershed. We’ve gone HEAVY on HD lately, and my poor Cinewave HD is not having the best time keeping up. With Pinnacle dropping support, and the inability to do any further system updates, etc, it was becoming clear that we need to move on. Today, the Cinewave just wouldn’t play with this very ^%$&^%$#%$ expensive D5 deck, making things VERY difficult going into the weekend. I haven’t known my Cinewave long enough even to name her, but alas her time may have come. So soon… So soon…

Sorry Buddy…

Enjoy that Adrenaline !

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader

[Bob Bonniol]

Like Jean, we have found that big contracts can send clients over the edge.

I also whole heartedly agree with 50% up front.

Our studio does usually do a simplified LOA (letter of agreement), that is usually one page, two at most, that stipulates we will do X, you will pay Y, and it will all be done on these dates. Sign here. If the gig is substantially large, then the attorneys are going to talk anyway, so out comes the big contract.

Some of our biggest clients, our concert clients, do it all on a handshake. Talk about having to trust… But they are ALL used to substantial up front fees.

Good luck, and look out !

Bob Bonniol

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader

[Bob Bonniol]

Bryan,

Please swing by the Live & Stage Events Forum here on the cow. We’ve laid this whole topic out at least 2 or 3 times in the last 6 months. Capsule answer: Look at sync’d computer playback, via a system like Dataton Watchout or AVStumpfl (not a typo !) Wings Platinum. Probably cheaper than the Doremi solution. With the Doremi’s you will need a software or hardware controller to trigger them all simultaneously, like Dataton Trax, Medialon Manager, or Crestron.

You could also use Hippotiser Media Servers. They are dual output, so you’d need two (could use Catalyst as well)… They are easily synch’d via timecode connection.

If this isn’t permanent, you probably should look at renting any of this gear, as opposed to buying. Generally cheaper.

For more, go check in on the other forum.

Best,
Bob Bonniol

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader

[Bob Bonniol]

All hail the Maus !!!

Spent 4+ years in WD Theatrical on the Broadway shows (Beauty and Lion King), Before that (and after) did lots of Sub work on the content creation and integration side for the ships and offshore parks (euro D, and Tokyo).

There’s almost no escaping working for them, if you are in entertainment long enough !

Cheers,
BB

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader

[Bob Bonniol]

Just my personal .02, but I avoid AM (Alcorn/McBride) gear like the plague. Worked for Disney for a long time, they were a big supplier, and it was constant nightmares. All of our rental partners have also run, not walked, away from Alcorn gear.

There are lots of other players (Doremi, FFV, Quvis, Video Brick) that also have good serial and other control protocols, MPEG playback, and good prices.

But if this guy isn’t planning on making a career of multiscreen presentation gear rental, he should probably contact his local AV rental company and see what they have… Focus on the content (built as described by Alexx) and let the AV company tackle the gear headache.

Cheers,
Bob

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader