Bill Russell
Forum Replies Created
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Since they shot in 23.976, they clearly wanted and have acquired the “filmlook”. Adding pulldown after the fact for 29.97/59.94 is really not a big deal — it is, as mentioned above, simply doing an export through AE, adding a 3:2 cadence to the final program output. Note that you MUST do this with with either editing route you go, there is no way around it. But doing it after the fact is superior for many reasons:
I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend editing in 23.976 (if all your footage is 23.976):
– It is a piece of cake to later go 23.976p to 29.97i, effectively lossless other than you have added a 3:2 cadence to the time rendering. The 3:2 cadence can easily be removed at any time with no loss. But it is effectively impossible to go the other direction — from 23.976 footage edited on a 29.97 sequence, TO a 23.976 output — after you have edited, without causing artifacts at edit points, recompressing parts of footage or distorting the timebased rendering of the footage. This is because a) cadence CHANGES at every edit point and b) edit points often happen in the MIDDLE of an original 24p frame, because the original frames are often spread across more than one 30i frame.
– ATSC HD broadcasts are 59.97, but for any content with a 3:2 cadence, almost every modern TV, Blu-Ray etc removes the 3:2 fields to display the full original 24p frames. The reason for 59.97 broadcast is both can be seamlessly broadcast — news at 30i, followed by dramatic television almost always at 24p, interspersed with TV ads at 30i, 30p or 24p. It all plays over a 29.97i/59.97 broadcast stream.
– Not exactly a new point, but a clarification of the above: when you add 3:2 (24p->30i) to a sequence edited in 24p, you get a single consistent 3:2 cadence throughout the entire sequence. But if you add pulldown to clips, then edit in 30i, you get a cadence pattern break at EVERY edit point. That can cause degraded frames (half frames) and also cause display systems trying to remove 3:2 cadence to hiccup at each edit point.
– VERY IMPORTANT: If you edit these 23.976 clips in 29.97, you have to add pulldown anyway! You can’t get away from this need. FCP (FCP7 anyway) does not do it for you when you put a a 24p clip on a 30i sequence — you get a slight jumpiness that will fail broadcast QC. You either have add pulldown to ALL of your source footage before editing, or you can choose to edit natively in 24p and later add 3:2 cadence ONLY ONCE, cleanly, to your final program.
Thems my recommendations! 🙂
P.S. OH, one more thing — you’ll always at the same time have your original 23.976 edit export TOO, so matching / conforming sync for your animation won’t be a problem.
P.P.S. Note that 24p timecode in FCP does not account for dropframe, but broadcast requires dropframe in the 30i TC. So when you time out your program, use a timecode calculator to get the exact equivalent. For instance, if your program needs to be 00:50:00.00 30i dropframe, then the non-dropframe program needs to be 00:49:57:00. You can use a timecode calculator: https://netmedia-software.com/ (or just do the math — it is the difference between 23.976 and 24 (or between 29.97 and 30, either way) = .999)
“THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA” –
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Thanks friend, especially for the particle illusion tip. I actually saw those VCP tutorials already, and am definitely going to use the animating a still cloud trick down the road. As far as the scene I’m working on, I just decided on brute force. I’m smushing several trails together to make an overall shape. It’s sort of working, believe or not (though rendering is insane). I’ll look at particle illusion though. I’ll share the final unmasked animation for kicks here when it’s done.
“THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA” –
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Here, this is the carnage that is my smoke animation in its current state:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8486452/smoke_abject_fail.mov
“THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA” –
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I wager if you export a short piece of the “jagged edge version” then open the Quicktime movie you’ll find that it’s really not jagged, but merely FCP’s knack for capricious display on desktop (which does display as jaggies on the horizontal but is actually something other than interlacing per se; as opposed to the actual video signal it generates, only viewable on external hardware) — so yes random and buggish I think and harmless. Anyway, you’ve got an easy work-around — cheers!
BTW this “FULL” unchecked in rendering is what to watch out for: https://imgur.com/2r1i0 – note subtle green line on right clip.
“THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA” –
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Which FCP are you using, and what are you viewing on? Check to make sure the render indicator is fully gray and not subtly green (hard to see). Sometimes the “subtly green”, what’s supposed to be full real-time, gives you low-rez frames until you fully render. Change render settings in menus. Also, computer display unreliable, sometimes single-field (half frame for progressive) without telling you — only true view is through third-party video monitoring.
“THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA” –
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Like the energizer bunny, it’s good to know a good tip keeps going and going! I’m glad.
I think the reason everybody is suddenly jumping ship is because in the spring Apple invented iMovie Pro and called it Final Cut X. They stopped support of all earlier versions of Final Cut and pulled them from the shelves. The new version is incompatible both a) with earlier versions of Final Cut (ie., you cannot import old projects) and b) with professional work flows (ie., you can’t do track assignments, for instance, or import/export EDLs, OMFs or XML anymore. Really.) But it IS compatible with iMovie projects. FCPX has kind of a neat new editing interface… but not much good when the new program is missing major organs. Professional editors have nowhere to go but out.
UPDATE: Well, I just wrote this a few minutes ago and then found out that Apple released it’s first update yesterday. They are starting to “put back” some of the things they threw away. The update includes support for XML. That’s progress and a good sign….
BTW, while I’m playing with FCPX, I still use FCP7 for my professional editing work. For now. FCPX, or Premiere, or back to Avid? We’ll see what the future holds!
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Doh! Nevermind. If you right-click in the timecode box, you can check / uncheck “drop-frame” (or “non-drop”, depending on what your sequence is set at). Must be new… and I can’t fathom what use this is. Oh well.
“THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA” –
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>>How did you get the clips, off tape or as files from the telecine facility? If you got a tape did you capture using the telecine log (flx or ale file)? I have found that reverse telecine works best when the clip you want to capture starts on an A-frame.<< Nope, no flex files, I don't think they exist. The material was telecined to Beta-SP about eight years ago, used to build a documentary now on a sequence with media given to me, that I am converting to true 24p. So it is sounding like my best shot is to use Compressor first then manually relink each film clip in the whole film to the reversed media. Ugh. “THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA” –
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Okay, I see reverse telecine in Compressor seems to detect correctly on a bunch of clips, hopefully for all. Still a bigger process to match in FCP than CT would be if it worked correctly, but better prospect than AE.
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Welp, since I posted this, I’ve learned how to do it in Word for the master doc, and Illustrator for AE. That’s leap forward, considering I’ve done millions of gutters brute force in the past. Just emailed the post house where I’ll be generating these in a sit-down, and they don’t have Illustrator 🙁