Andrew Kimery
Forum Replies Created
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Man, what a kerfluffle because of a typo. ????
Yes, I meant to say that Apple killed FCP 7, not FCP in general. Though I’m inclined to agree with Oliver that FCPX was a Version 1 reboot and it didn’t share much with its predecessors beyond branding. I also think if Apple would’ve kept FCP 7 copies on the shelves and launched X with the ability to import FCP 7 projects the transition from 7 to X goes 100x smoother. But that’s all academic at this point.
Speaking of taking a project from 7 to X, in Bill’s opinion (and possibly others’ too) XML isn’t acceptable so going by that metric there still doesn’t exist a way to get from 7 to X. ????
[Bill Davis] “Because right now, I can take ANY of my FCP 7 or prior projects. (all the way back to FCP 1.0 if I wanted to maintain a historical machine and OS System that I obviously owned when I was using it) Launch FCP Legacy on a suitable machine. And revise my work for a client. “
If some one sends you a FCP 1.0 project you could open it up immediately, or you could hypothetically open it up if you still had a fully functioning Mac from The Year 2000 (still one of my favorite Conan skits)? In the right situation and for a single NLE this might not be totally unpractical, but don’t you think it would get unwieldily if someone was using multiple NLEs over the course of a 40 or 50 year long career? That’s a lot of computers and operating systems to freeze in place and maintain on the off chance that you’ll need to revisit a project.
Personally, I’d rather deal with XMLs and a bit of elbow grease and ideally I’d prefer a more robust, universally used format so because that would be better than either XMLs or keeping a garage full of old computers.
[Bill Davis] “That is simply NOT the case with a lapsed subscription where you get cut off from access to the enabling program code if you elect to stop paying.”
How is this different from the already existing and long established gear rental market? Or the client relationship where, w/o the producer/editor, the client has no access to their IP? I know you’ve drawn a line in the sand and I’m just trying to get a better understanding why what falls where and why.
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[Bill Davis] “There are many ways to learn that how to use them all, including the ability to do it without spending a dime more than acquisition of the program – making my product OPTIONAL. “
There are multiple NLEs people can use, including one that doesn’t cost a dime, so choosing the NLE offered by Adobe is OPTIONAL.
[Bill Davis] “Getting “locked out of your own IP because you didn’t continue paying a third party who should NEVER (in my opinion) nor in ANY way have the ability to separate you from your OWN IP” is, in my humble opinion, so far from the same as to be in a totally different universe. “
You and Adobe (along with a lot of other companies) choose to live on Planet Subscription. You may think Adobe shouldn’t live on Planet Subscription, but that’s a totally different matter.
With regards to getting “locked out of your own IP”, I assume you toss the same vitriol at people/companies that rent gear as you do at Adobe? ‘Cause really what’s fundamentally different between renting, say, a turnkey system for a month vs CC for a month? Come month number 2 it’s pay more or no more NLE for you. Should editors work for free because doing otherwise would separate the client form their own IP? Will the soundstage allow me to keep using it at no cost after my allotted time is up? Will the cold storage facility offer me unfettered access to my IP after I stop paying my monthly bill? There are a plethora of situations where a third party can “separate’ you from your own IP due to lack of payment.
Thankfully FCP 7 has an export XML function otherwise Apple would have been separating me from my own IP once I decided to stop using the NLE they killed. Oh, and I certainly need to thank Philip and Greg for making SendtoX so that Apple would no longer be separating me from my own IP when I want to transfer projects that originated in other NLEs into FCPX.
[Bill Davis] “And I don’t think it’s an accident that this serves their business interests in making it harder to leave, the longer you create work in their system. “
That statement isn’t unique to Adobe and it is also very situational. I mean, isn’t it common to call Media Composer ‘entrenched’ when talking about why it still has the place it does in the NLE world? The more time and money that goes towards a certain solution (especially at the enterprise level) the harder it is to jump ship and go a different route. Even on the individual user level it can be hard which is why people are typically reluctant to switch platforms unless they become strongly motivated. I’ve been an Apple user over 15yrs and at this point it’s certainly easier for me to switch NLEs than switch computing platforms.
With regards to different editing situations, I’ve been using PPro as my main NLE for around three years, but I could drop it from my personal edit system tomorrow and there wouldn’t really be a problem because the type of work I usually do doesn’t lend itself to creating a library of past projects that get revisited on a regular basis (I’d of course still have to use it when it’s required by my clients/employers). Once I’m done working on a project the deliverables, project files, assets, etc., all go back to the producer/director and it’s off to the next gig. Even when I work with the same people again it’s always on a new/different project
Even places I’ve worked that did recycle a lot of their previous work (ex. one place did commercials for bands on tour) would just pull from textless masters with split audio (much easier than re-constituting an old project). Most of my work with new media companies has been like that as well. Once it’s done it’s done. There are of course evergreen assets that get used over and over again, but those are certainly not tied to one specific NLE.
For people that typically deal with ongoing/open ended projects I can certainly see the lack of appeal of paying a subscription for your NLE, but not everyone is in that situation.
[Bill Davis] “And sorry, but an XML pooped out that when loaded into another NLE loses a significant part of my work and makes me start over is NOT the same as letting me go in and access my own work from where I left off without further cost. “
So how does one get 100% of one’s work out of FCPX when one needs/wants to switch to another NLE? Not everyone wants to, or is in a position to, keep a cacophony of old computers running old operating systems until the day they die so they can hop between this project in FCP 7, that project from an Avid ABVB system, that one from Vegas, that one from FCP XI, that one from Resolve 2025, etc.,. You don’t think keeping a collection like that in working order has costs associated to it? Don’t take this the wrong way, but at your age and place in life keeping a bunch of old computers around probably isn’t that big a deal. For someone that’s in their 20’s or 30’s though, telling them to hang onto computers for decades incase they may need to access an old project is an inelegant solution at best.
The right solution, IMO, is lobbying for an open, universal exchange format that all companies agree to adopt. Will it be 100% perfect? No, but it’ll be better than a closet full of old computers. I’d much rather migrate my projects (and media assets, and storage methods) forward as tech progress rather than try to hang on to relics that hopefully will keep working (especially as certain tech keeps moving more and more towards unrepairable, sealed boxes).
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[Tim Wilson] “Oh I guarantee that the price will go up, but yeah, people who painted that horror story picture are simply wrong, and always will be.”
I agree that it will go up eventually (didn’t mean to imply that it never would) due to inflation, currency shifts, etc., (exchange rates already caused it to go up in the UK) but I was more talking about the doom n’ gloomers predicting Adobe jacking up prices with reckless abandon. If Adobe tries that their NLE customers will just leave, because as we’ve mentioned there are other pastures and users can move between them relatively easily.
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[Tim Wilson] “That’s why the whole “locked out forever” trope has always seemed like a straw man. “
Add to that the ‘they’ll never update it’ trope. And the ‘they’ll keep raising prices’ trope. Some people have even done enough mental gymnastics to somehow paint things like Adobe Stock in a negative light, ‘See, I *told* you Adobe would find a way to raise prices’ even though rolling out an optional service like that, which anyone can use, means Adobe can increase revenue w/o having to raise CC prices.
What allows companies to get too big for their britches isn’t a subscription, it’s lack of competition (or perceived lack of competition). Case in point is Avid 10-15yrs ago. No subscription there, but they thought they could kick back and not react to customer demands. In the NLE arena, as long as MC, FCP, Resolve, etc., are around then Adobe has to stay on point or people will say ‘later alligator’ and switch. People did it in droves before and they had a lot more money tied up in Avid than anyone will ever have in CC. Not to mention the hardware hurdles that existed back then compared to today where switching NLEs is as easy as closing one app and opening the other.
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[Bill Davis] “Well, what I’m NOT doing is taking away their ability to continue working on THEIR OWN VIDEOS if they don’t renew their subscriptions.
Seems to me as if that’s a pretty HUGE difference in the different subscription models right there. “
You are offering tutorials about about software, Adobe is offering the actual software; It’s a huge difference in what’s being offered, but the models are the same (they are both subscriptions).
Don’t pay the ISP bill? Don’t pay the Adobe bill? Don’t pay the Bill bill (sorry, couldn’t help myself)? End result is the same, access is lost. If one lets their subscription to Sapphire effects from Gen Arts lapse one has to re-up before it’ll work again. If one rents a bounce house, a BetaSP deck, a RED Dragon or an entire turnkey NLE system one has to keep paying otherwise access is lost.
[Walter Soyka] “FCP7/FCPX taught me that switching creative applications is easier than I ever thought. If you want to quit Premiere tomorrow, export XML and download Resolve (or buy FCPX and SendToX) today.”
That’s crazy talk, Walter. Everyone knows that once you start using an NLE you can never, ever, ever switch to another one. 😉
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[Bill Davis] “It’s just semantics, I suppose. “
It’s not semantics, either you are charging people to access the videos or you offering them for free (not counting people on the 7-day free trial).
You wanted to increase of the value of your service with, presumably, the intended goals of retaining current subscribers as well as attracting new ones. It’s almost like you are saying subscription services need to continuously prove their worth or risk losing subscribers. 😉
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[Robin S. Kurz] “Absolutely. Comparing completely non-standard layouts strikes me as pretty disingenuous and contrived.”
How is it disingenuous and contrived? Comparing and contrasting is pretty fundamental to analyses, debate and exploration of various ways of thinking/problem solving.
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[Simon Ubsdell] “I guess I need therapy.
“Therapy? is awesome. I suggest starting with Troublegum, it’s probably their best album.
https://www.therapyquestionmark.co.uk/
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[Bill Davis] “To the best of my knowledge, there was never a MASSIVE mis-impression that Adobe Premiere Pro was a TERRIBLE NLE and that Adobe had “ruined” editing by creating it.”
Dude? Seriously? lol I know you like to complain about how hard it was to be an X-user back in the day (by that I mean a few years ago) but Premiere has been getting crapped on regularly since the early 90’s! Never a massive mis-impression… LOL
[Bill Davis] “Overtime a application developer adds features to their program they increase the value. Often, those are DETATCHED from the need to increment revenue. Apple just spent huge amounts of time and money plumbing in MASSIVE improvements in FCP X 10.3 – yet that was almost completely DECOUPLED from revenue concerns – at least for existing users. “
Except you need a computer from Apple to use it. Preferably a newer Mac (at last going by your praise about how much better your experience is using a newer MBP vs an older tower). Apple, like BM, can afford to give away the software because it’s tied to their hardware. Adobe can’t adopt that model because they don’t sell hardware.
[Bill Davis] “It’s right up front. Adobe prizes incremental add-on sales inside their apps. What’s wrong with that? “
What are you talking about? Things like the the Vimeo or the Frame.io panel don’t cost money any more than using the Share feature in X costs money. The very cool Post Notes panel costs money, but it’s a plugin. And Adobe certainly doesn’t get a cut of the money I pay to Pond5 if I use their stock footage and associated Panel.
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I agree that there is no one right solution for each person and each situation. Though for me my left hand is pretty wedded to the G13 these days. My right hand could bounce between a mouse, a Wacom or a trackpad just depending on the situation (or if I feel an RSI coming on).
[Simon Ubsdell] “The mouse is a pretty awful and antiquated device, but for many tasks it still comfortably outperforms anything else. And for many tasks, the keyboard is streets ahead of anything else for speed.”
Compared to the QWERTY keyboard the mouse is just a child. ????
IMO the ubiquity of the keyboard is it’s greatest asset. People already know where to find the “B” key so saying “B is for Blade” is pretty dead simple. With a new hardware device you are asking people to learn two things, the physical layout of the inputs on the device plus the functions attached to those inputs. Years ago I used JLCooper’s panels for color grading with Apple Color and I never got around to learning of any of the tertiary soft keys/buttons on the device. I used the transport controls and controls directly related to grading, but the dozen or so keys for saving, jumping between tabs, etc., largely remained untouched.
-Andrew