Andrew Kimery
Forum Replies Created
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[Bill Davis] “So please, if ANYBODY here has actual, personal successfully experience in doing this type of “switch off – switch on” Adobe subscription thing PLEASE post here how you managed it. I would LOVE to be able to execute that as well. “
I have twice. Okay, so both times my credit card was closed due to theft and Adobe was like “Hey, we’re trying to bill you but we can’t…” and I let my account go dark for a bit because I wasn’t using CC. Technically that counts, right? ????
I know you’ve been struggling with your account snafu for a while, and this may be an extreme suggestion, but what if you change your payment method to a prepaid CC?
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[Joe Marler] “Avid thinks it’s very important for reality TV, and pitch their Interplay MAM for this: ‘The high shooting ratios and multiple camera angles of Reality TV and unscripted programming pose enormous challenges in managing and logging more media than ever before,” said Chris Gahagan, senior vice president of Products and Services at Avid.”‘ https://www.avid.com/fr/press-room/2013/04/avid-interplay-production-simplif...”
If productions find that it’s worth the cost they’ll use it, but that hasn’t been my experience on the reality shows I’ve worked on (including one that shot 250hrs of footage a day). Every project has a deadline and a budget which means everyone settles on what’s ‘good enough’ to get their project out the door on time, on budget and at the expected quality level. In my experience people don’t meticulously log all the footage on reality shows because there isn’t enough time, there isn’t enough money and it’s just overkill to do so.
For example, if I’m working on a home renovation show I don’t need a break down of every time Bob swings a
hammer in the kitchen on episode 604. “CU Bob hammer kitchen 16d nail”, “WS Bob hammer kitchen 16d nail”, “crane shot Bob hammer kitchen 16d nail”, “CU rack focus Bob hammer kitchen 16d nail”, “MS pan down from ceiling Bob hammer kitchen 16d nail”, “WS whip pan Bob hammer kitchen 16d nail”, etc., etc., etc.,. If I’m editing a scene where Bob is hanging new kitchen cabinets it’s a foregone conclusion that there will be footage of Bob hammering in the kitchen. A shot-by-shot breakdown of a camera that’s repositioning every 10-15 seconds is a waste of time. Scrolling through the selects I’ve been handed will be faster and once that scene is locked that footage is never needed again (yes, yes I know the joke about nothing ever being locked). All I really need to know is what the important beats of the scene are, along with the best broll shots, and that’s easy enough to get via stringouts, and/or markers. Story producers and AEs only have some much time so time in a day so it’s a matter of triage.Coming up I worked as a vault/library manager and then later as an Assistant Editor so I certainly know the power of organization, but one of the first things I realized about workflow development is there is usually a big difference between what would be an ‘ideal’ workflow and what’s realistically achievable given time, money and human nature. There’s always room for improvement, but perfect is the enemy of good, as they say.
[Joe Marler] “We widely accept the benefit of database tagging and keywording for stills, so why not video?”
Tagging/keywording for video is nothing new though. To be honest, I’ve never worked anywhere where editors haven’t used markers, placed subclips into categorically named folders/bins, given media descriptive file names and/or added keywords/tags into a notes/comments field.
[Joe Marler] “Then who is buying and using Interplay, CatDV, etc. and for what?”
Why do some people use Ford F-350 Super Duty pickup trucks while others use Honda Accords while still others use Vespa scooters?
Again, I think the MAMs are most useful for companies/productions that deal with lots of evergreen footage and for archiving (basically situations where institutional knowledge isn’t a viable option). For example, I used to work for a website that covered the video game industry (sorta like ESPN but for video games) and we reused footage on a regular basis so I setup a system that made it straight forward to find and retrieve game footage, event coverage and interviews (even if it had been archived offline). The metadata wasn’t very detailed (basically game name, event name, date, location, people on camera, etc.,) but it was enough that if someone asked “Hey, can we pull up all the times we interview Joe Blow at E3” we could easily find all that footage.
Another, and more rudimentary example, is I use NeoFinder as a poor mans MAM for my computers and backup HDDs (I’ve looked at CatDV, but it’s just overkill for my needs at this point in time). I used to be able to keep everything straight in my head, but I eventually got to a point where I kept asking myself “What’s on this drive again?” and that’s when I grabbed NeoFinder.
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[Joe Marler] “I just don’t think this organizational method is efficiently scalable to larger productions and higher shooting ratios, esp. docs. The fact these were previously done using primitive methods doesn’t validate this workflow in the modern era. It would actually be good to have more info on what asset management methods are being used today. This aspect is usually given little coverage in these “behind the scenes” accounts.”
On the reality shows and large (in terms of footage) docs I’ve worked on the workflow is fairly similar to Vashi’s with regards to using a wall of index cards to outline the story on a macro level and Google docs/spreadsheets to track things at the micro level and the minutiae. Looking a wall of index cards is a totally different experience than looking at a screen and I think this change in physical perspective can help facilitate a change in mental perspective about the project at hand.
And the nice thing about using Office 365 or Google Docs is easily accessible and up-dateable by anyone that’s part of the production. For example, on one doc I worked on we had a huge spread sheet that tracked everything from shoot dates to status of exports to whether or not the director had finished a paper cut of a specific interview. The spreadsheet also had links to other documents like field notes, transcripts, logged ‘scenes’ (verite as opposed interviews), logged broll, releases, etc., that were in Google Docs.
Jumping back to reality TV for a second, in my experience with that the editors rarely start from raw footage. Typically story producers are taking notes during production and start building the story during the shoot. They’ll then create a stringout for the editor (maybe 8-10min of footage for a 3-4min scene). Usually if editors went back to the raw footage themselves it was for somethings specific. For example, one time I was working on a scene of someone making an upholstery pattern for chair. As I started building a small montage of him working I got the idea to do it in such a way that of the craftsman’s motions would fluidly chain together (as opposed to having a chop-chop-chop feel) so I went back to the raw and looked for footage that had the movements I was looking for. There’s no way anyone, including myself, could have key-worded for that prior to editing because I didn’t know what I was looking for until I’d after I’d started editing and the idea came to me.
I think deep and thorough asset management is more useful in some instances than others. For example, on reality TV shows I don’t think it’s that paramount because the lifespan of these projects is so fast. In a matter of months it goes from nothing to finished product so it’s easier to get away with having lots of info only living in people’s heads. Sure, a few months after wrap people would have forgotten things, but a few months after wrap the show’s season is probably over. It’s just not really a thing that’s ever green.
On the flip side, for someone like NFL Network, who has decades of game film with thousands of different players, yeah, you need top tier asset management if you are ever going to keep it all usably accessible. Especially since editors and producers are going to be cycling in/out on a somewhat regular basis so you can’t depend on institutional knowledge to get you by. Places like this usually have dedicated media asset management programs because their needs eclipse what can be done inside of an NLE.
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[Michael Gissing] “One of the reasons I originally chose FCP4.5 was that was what most of my client editors were cutting on and I could take over the project and handle grade and finishing using the same software. Audio went out to Fairlight. So now I have a tool that for the first time bundles all the tools to cut and finish into one.”
Now you just need most of your client editors to decide Resolve is the best NLE for them and you’ll have it made in the shade. 😉
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[Shawn Miller] “I have a sneaking suspicion that folks who mostly edit for a living won’t be looking to go as far down the grading path as you have.. but that’s just my opinion. ☺ “
I agree. Which is why I think the “Resolve is poised to take over” talk is premature until Resolve proves that it can be top notch NLE because, to your point, people who edit for a living are looking for an NLE first and everything else second.
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[Scott Witthaus] “But if I can do that in an NLE I like better than Resolve, why switch?”
I dunno, I’m not advocating switching. I’m just trying to get the nucleus of your comment about going with Resolve necessitating buying high quality audio and color grading monitors. A few years ago I worked on a web series and it was graded in Resolve using an Apple monitor plugged into the nMP. Given that the free version of Resolve is so good I’d venture a guess that the majority of Resolve users are using the free version and *not* using a proper grading monitor.
[Shawn Miller] “Sure… how many editors do you think there are that can actually get farther with Resolve than with Premiere and the Lumetri color panel though?”
I think it depends on the complexity of the grade and if the editor already knows how to use Resolve. For simple color correction on short videos with tight turn around times I really like the Lumetri color panel. If I’m doing something more complex/creative I can get more done faster in Resolve (especially if it’s a long form project). But a while back I took almost a two year break from editing and focused on color grading so it’s fairly easy for me to put that hat on again.
I used to color grade inside of FCP Legend, and I could get very good results with FCP, but it took more work and more time to get the results I wanted. Once I started using Color (and later Resolve) my time on task when down and the quality of the end results when up. But, again, horses for courses. I think there are times when something like Lumetri is the best solution and some times when something like Resolve is the best solution.
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[Tim Wilson] ” Adobe was even bolder in some ways when they took a formerly Mac-only product (Adobe Premiere) and made its next evolution Windows-only from 2001-2005 (Premiere Pro), “
Minor correction, Premiere had been cross platform since the mid-90’s I think.
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[Scott Witthaus] “What I am saying is that I am an editor, who (if need be, for non-bcast material) can color a little and mix a little. For me, having to make the investment to REALLY do color and sound doesn’t make sense, no matter what software I am cutting on.”
But you can still color a little bit and mix a little bit in Resolve just like you can in any other NLE. It’s not like Resolve won’t launch unless it detects appropriate color and sound monitoring equipment plugged into it. ; ) If you saying it doesn’t make sense for you to make the time investment to learn Resolves color grading and audio mixing features because of they are overkill for your needs, that I can totally understand (and relate to).
[Scott Witthaus] “That fateful day in 2011 did nothing to force me to choose a new software right then. “
I didn’t mean to imply it forced people to pick a new NLE exactly on that day, but it did force FCP Legend users to pick a new NLE in the subsequent years.
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[Scott Witthaus] “So you can get a $299 software but now need audio suite quality monitors and color correction monitors? No thanks, I will let the audio and color houses do that.”
I don’t follow. If someone mixes with computer speakers and grades on a computer display how does using Resolve 14 vs Avid vs X vs PPro vs Lightworks change anything? Inaccurate monitors are inaccurate monitors regardless of NLE, right?
[Scott Witthaus] “Maybe if you work in multiple editor, colorist and audio projects its a big deal.”
And I think that’s the sticky wicket; getting the editor, the colorist and the re-recording mixer to all use Resolve. It reminds me of the old 7/SoundTrack Pro relationship (or PPro/Audition) where the weakest link wasn’t the interconnectivity but the fact that the guy doing the audio used ProTools and had no intention of switching.
To be honest, I really like the approach Adobe is taking with putting more powerful but ‘editor friendly’ audio, GFX, and color grading tools inside PPro while still having connections to stand alone programs like Audition and After Effect if you need to do more heavy lifting (SpeedGrade is kinda the failed part of this collection as it just can’t compete with a free Resolve). At first blush Resolve seems like it’s heading towards bloat-town by trying to put a fully featured NLE, fully featured DAW and fully featured color grading all into one piece of software. Time will tell though. I’ve already downloaded the Beta and I’ll mess around with it, but audio mixing isn’t my forte so having the Fairlight Page in there is a bit like casting pearls before swine in my case.
With regards to adoption rate, Apple caused a big shakeup by replacing 7 with X and that pretty much forced all 7 users to pick a new NLE (X, Avid or PPro). Now that the dust has settled I’m not sure if most users/post facilities will be open to changing their primary NLE again w/o extenuating circumstances. Lots of people have been eyeballing and talking about Resolve’s improved editing abilities over the last few years, but I still think it’s got a lot of ‘prove it’ before people will see it as a solid, standalone NLE as opposed to a color grading tool that has NLE functionality added to it.
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[andy patterson] “It makes the offerings from Apple look like a lesser product as well. You forgot to mention that. How come? “
I think Apple gets a pass from ‘needing to worry’ because Apple doesn’t need the creative market in order to keep the lights on. Adobe and Avid, on the other hand, do so a race-to-the-bottom software price war could impact Adobe and Avid greatly yet not impact Apple at all. I mean, Apple could start selling X for $0.99 and the overall revenue drop would probably be a fraction of a percent to Apple’s overall bottom line.