[Alec Eagon]

Not that I am aware of. I have looked high and low.

I am considering downloading Compressor 4 and trying an export out of there. I have Comp 3 but I imagine 4 has more up-to-date Blu-ray settings >>> i.e. .m4v as opposed to mpeg2 export options like AME?

This sound sane to anyone?

I guess it is worth a test, at least to single out if it is Encore or Media Encoder’s fault. I doubt it is Encore but at this point I will try anything.

[Alec Eagon]

Okay so this is fascinating…

I added the 3-Way Color Corrector to the entire film with Saturation/Chroma Center at 0 > saved .mov self-contained > converted to .m4v (Blu-ray) in AME with the same settings as above > Burned to disc in Encore…and guess what? THE COLOR IS STILL THERE AND STILL JUST AS BAD.

I suppose this means that AME is introducing some color information…??? WHY!?!?!

I just went back and looked at the .m4v in Encore and in the playback, even as “demo-quality” as the playback is, I can still see the colorcasts. Suppose I should’ve checked that before I burned.

Any ideas?

[Alec Eagon]

[jerry wise] “when color broadcasting came about….if one was broadcasting a black and white movie you would have to turn off the color sub carrier in the film chain otherwise you would get a faint red to blue to green color cycling on home TV’s. I remember having to do that back in the 70’s. you could kill the color using the color corrector on some clips and see if that is the issue. good lock.”

Oh wow that is really interesting.

[Alec Eagon]

Jeff,

Yeah I guess all digital is technically “color”. Never run into a problem like this so I’ve never actually thought about that. It is a bit harder to see on Vimeo, like I said, it came and went throughout the whole of the film, but that last shot of the drain pipe is the biggest offender. I don’t have a Dreamcolor monitor but when you work with “real” BW as much as I have, I suppose you don’t need one for these things become glaring problems. Glad you were able to see it.

I applied Color Corrector (3 Way) in FCP and brought both the Saturation and the Chroma Center to 0, but I’ve run into a burning error a couple times here with my Blu-ray burner. I will get back here as soon as I have results…(think I am getting really close).

-Alec

[Alec Eagon]

Jerry,

Which program are you referring to when you say apply “the color corrector”?

At what point would the “color sub-carrier” have been applied since it is native B&W…in the telecine process? Is there a way to remove said sub-carrier without having to manipulate things in ME? I’d really like avoid re-encoding if possible.

Thanks much for getting back.

-Alec

[Alec Eagon]

Vanessa,

Thanks for getting back to me. Not sure if you have come across any information regarding Criterion’s testing of the open source X264 codec for Blu-ray encoding. Apparently they said it was as good as anything that costs $100,000 and still requires HDV tape–haha what the flip!?!? I mean I am a Luddite who loves physical media but this is 2014 for heaven sakes–(https://www.x264bluray.com/).

I have used the X264 codec extensively in the past via MPEG Streamclip as a front end to incorporate a 2.2 gamma tag into exports for the web to bypass H.264 gamma shifts, however apparently if you really know how to use this thing you can do spectacular things with it for Blu-ray. There are specific tags and algorithms for film grain compression. Unfortunately it kind of seems as though you need to know how to program to really get the most out of it (even with advanced front ends that give you access to all the features such as Hybrid…which I tested out a ton yesterday and could never get to export anything but mpeg2 file for DVD).

HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT…

After a bit of testing of my own with AME CC and Encore CS6, I am very very close (or so it seems) to a workflow that actually knocked my socks off last night upon watching my first test disc…I mean knocked them off…and anyone who knows me would tell you that that is almost impossible to do 🙂

Zero artifacts.
Incredible definition.
I MEAN LITERALLY CRITERION BLU-RAY CALIBER.

BUT I need to figure out one issue… https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/3/954694

-Alec

[Alec Eagon]

*BUMP*

I am working on a project that is almost identical to this. I would really like to save weeks of headaches and experimentation, which is usually what it takes to get grainy ProRes film scans to look even halfway decent on Vimeo. I would really really appreciate it if someone who knows how to achieve Criterion-quality professional Blu-ray encodes would chime in here.

Also, Vanessa, since your first post was a few months back, if you have since developed a workflow, I would be very grateful if you would post it.

Thanks so much,
-Alec

Alec E.

[Alec Eagon]

[Shane Ross] “Get an external monitor (Good HDTV or broadcast monitor)..”

Do you have any recommendations for a “Good HDTV” and will I need to to calibrate this or will the AJA/BM/Matrox card + the HDTV be naturally producing an accurate general broadcast image?

The initial showings of this film will be HD digital projection, thus the telos right now would be to achieve as little color shift as possible FCP > Compressor > Apple Pro Res HQ file being played back via HD digital projector…

Would the setup you have recommended produce for us the most solid, least shifty, color workflow possible, FCP to HD projection?–or for that matter, to any broadcast device (obviously pending varying unchangeable characteristics of different devices)?

***Oh and is there a particular card you would recommend?
(my current graphics card is an “ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB”)

Thanks a ton Shane,
-Alec

Alec E.

[Alec Eagon]

Huh…wow. Well that is sure something. Not quite sure how I have never known this.

So a calibrated Apple Cinema Display does me now good with FCP6 because the program itself was not designed to show you an accurate representation of the footage you are working with?…Is this correct? I mean, of course I believe you, but this also seems to be slightly absurd, like something they should have taken care of in the first version of FCP…but maybe I am just too green in the world of media production even with 7-8 years under my belt.

***

Gosh, forgive me, I am kind of embarrassed that I never knew this. I imagine this is sort of the missing piece in the overall explanation all lengths we’ve had to go to get accurate color representation in our previous 16mm>WebVid work flow (even after we’ve tended to the .h264 shifts with the best possible)?

The thing that I don’t get though is that, considering that I am an accurate color-fidelity nut (or at least I thought), I do not recall ever experiencing this sort of shift when playing back unadulterated exports of color 16mm footage via compressor…when we have had that workflow, the place where everything got screwed up was in the h.264 gamma shift while converting to web video, but there was never any noticeable difference between how the footage in FCP and and full res exports via Compressor being played back in QT7…is it just 100x more noticeable because it is B&W this time?

***

So I guess this presents a new problem: We are in the final stages of editing a 25-30min short shot entirely on 16mm B&W. “The film” (insofar as we have sculpted it in FCP6) globally should have the darker/slightly underexposed look of the “FCP still” above…

Does anyone have any suggestions about how we might go about achieving the same contrast/black depth/color as what we are viewing in FCP6? Is it possible to trace the what is displaying the footage the way that it is in FCP?

…or would the only thing to do at this point be to: 1) take screenshots of each shot as we view it in FCP, 2) get accurate representation of the footage via external HDTV or FCPX, 3) have the film globally colored as close as possible to the aesthetic we’ve become accustomed to in FCP6?

***

Thanks a lot for waking me up here Shane. Though it’s partially disappointing, this could be huge for our workflow in the future.

-Alec

Alec E.

[Alec Eagon]

Of the different operating systems??? Help me out here I’m a little confused…

Alec E.