[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Shawn Miller] ” I like where they’re going, but if they want to compete with AE, they seriously need to shed their “fan film” vibe and open the application up to third party developers. I also think Motion could be a serious contender to AE… “

sure isn’t the point that there is currently nothing on the field challenging AE as a key mograph application?

No one is going to shift to motion or hitfilm. You are hypothetically looking at a funded new entrant analysing and synthesising, with realtime operation,
core aspects of ae to produce an answer that betters it for key brand design solutions. time and motion study.

say an application that clearly, per quantifiable dollar, iterates faster and better brand mograph design problems –
without say, some pointless rotobrush or a buried, ages old, brian maffit ocean generator no one cares about.
you just clear that 20 year old crud away, hug AE close for the customer in design terms, and sleekly answer motion graphics for the now. opening it up to all partners.

as long as it’s fit, design targeted and a total revelation, well there you go: surely most designers alive would try it just to see if it’s all that.
they haven’t seen anything in a long time. The type object animation twirl down apparatus in AE is a kafkaesque insanity. honestly. that’s all ridiculous and we’re talking about typographic animation here. adobe are getting away with murder.

In design terms, as an initial statement, I’m not sure this effort is predicated on C4D integration.
you just need funding to assemble a skills group to breakdown and beat AE as a mograph application that can play extremely well with AE, PS, nuke, avid and autodesk.

you would feel that could be done. far likelier target than PS, with – at least – the guts of a million licenses at play.

and so the perfect fantasy.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Bill Davis] ” that whole presentation turned out to be a panel thing with three filmmaking guys I’d never heard of talking about how they looooved the new CC stuff.”

distant observer – but you could maybe argue that adobe tried to tie everything and everyone up too close to them, to the point where they did no one at all any favours.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Walter Soyka] “I don’t think Nuke disrupted the Flame market”

I dunno – I’m sure I heard it disrupted something. There’s a lot of nuke guys doing crazy composites that aren’t happening in flame suites these days.

[Walter Soyka] “As for the size of the Ae market — which one? Ae is a really broad tool, used in a lot of different ways: motion graphics, VFX, compositing, color correction, finishing… “

that, as it were, would be the point. Why can’t you produce a realtime mograph focused AE that mirrors and beats AE at mograph and forget the VFX that’s drifting elsewhere? say to nuke?
game companies for instance get all their high end in game commercials done in nuke off maya with in game models. At least EA does. then some chump say does the other lower type fx stuff in AE and versions in premiere. Now I have no idea who that chump would be, but he definitely did enjoy talking to the crazy skills art director nuke specialist guy running and finishing the entire show in nuke. that dude was really impressive.

the idea that AE is playing that much of that kind of game I think is open to question in VFX terms. the fact that you can dial in specific scripts for prime lenses for bokeh on a CG piece in nuke etc.

I just don’t see why you can’t say that AE is primarily a mograph app. forget the 20% 30% 80% stuff. just produce an AE compatible version that does mograph better and real time with more dedicated tools. Do a set of highly focused things extremely well at near realtime.

It’s different to photoshop. Speed, as it were, is of the essence, and AE is improbably slow. There is an argument that a focused mograph realtime implementation of AE could take quite a lot of AE away from AE.

then AE can go off and compete on high level colour correction, high level finishing and VFX where it is doubtless performing so well.

MS word gets away with the bloat because in the end its all about typing sentences and word owns that. You could argue that AE is caught amidships where the disciplines in CC and vfx are drifting away.

All it would really take was one funded effort to answer core mograph fundamentally better at realtime than AE.

and so the perfect fantasy.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

exactly.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Simon Ubsdell] “she could never imagine working on anything other than Ae”

true there simon, if I’m honest I’m sort of one of them. not a very highly skilled one, but one. I came in at 4.0 and the excitement of multiple masks per layer.

but the thing is you’re forgetting how incredible this new application is, how tightly focused on mograph and performance, how slick and clean the toolset is, its really an amazing app. I wish you could see simon, how incredible this competitor that integrates so well with AE is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRRKKKUAtoc

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

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[Aindreas Gallagher]

You’re wrecking my fantasy buzz simon. But yeah – that all has a ring to it.

except for this bit –

“No mograph professional is going to look at any wannabe Ae competitor if it doesn’t match After Effects in every particular.”

that’s the only thing I think is basically wrong – if the competitor comes out the gate focused solely on a key mograph toolset operating at near realtime all the time – then I could very easily imagine AE types putting it into their toolset if only as a rapid prototyping area for type work, design compositing, grading and masking. make it the best possible place to do those key tasks. and have it all be realtime at 1080P.

forget all about C4D pipelines. what you want to have happen is for them to be sufficiently fond of it to start using it in conjunction with AE – then you build out the toolset and slowly start stealing mograph from under adobe. sell it for 350 quid. if you start to gain real traction with core mograph – who can always go onto AE for the crazier stuff – because you made it AE compatible, but if you can get enough people to start slotting it into their workflow, because its incredibly fast and well thought out, that would be 350 times quite a lot of people. say conservatively a quarter of a million licenses in the first three years. thats still eighty million in revenue. that should keep the wolf from the door.

there – I refined my fantasy vision.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

well – better not a CC debate crew circlejerk Ricardo? best avoid that at all costs eh?
also fusion is weird old crazy. I was at their booth at l.e.a.f. twelve years ago. also say nodal cannot displace AE.
A quantitatively sharper near real time AE mograph competitor could formally challenge AE though.

speaking privately here ricardo, we ideally need simon ubsdell to produce a positive substantive opinion on the viability of a new entrant, ala nuke to flame, attacking the market position of AE.

basically the notion that AE is ripe for specific mograph disruption with an addressable market in the millions ill at ease with adobe.
all you really need there is an imaginary high skills group brewing a killer nuke equivalent for the mograph AE market.

In the age of blackmagic/witchcraft NLE development that doesn’t sound so crazy anymore.

you’d think a tooled up group could take on AE. It’s a pretty ripe old ram preview target.
the software team’s perception of interoperability and market partners would be a thing you’d think.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

please! We’ve all seen what you can do in motion Simon. Given enough lead time I’m pretty sure you could perform cold fusion in there.

It’s not whether motion is a functioning replacement that was my thing there. That’s why I was blabbing on about a designer’s davinci – just even that phrase, like what would that actually be.

Nuke disrupted the flame market right? How big is the AE market? I was basically fantasising about an incubator that would specifically target and analyse after effects to see what they could bring to market. The first thing you would think is that AE really is kind of incredibly slow relative to what’s going on out there. And also that it has a lunatically broad feature set.

You’d wonder how much of the core tool set, operating at near real time, with say plug-in compatibility (have no idea if that could happen) and similar javascript for extensibility – how much of AE would people need to get them to shift to a slimmer, cheaper, faster, more focused AE that they could pick up for 4-500 quid? where say AE could open its project files ala pixelmator opening in PS?

So a mograph focused AE competitor with, like, excellent CC and stuff – that was my wee little fantasy. If it was really sweet, extremely fast, excellent type design tools etc – you could imagine trendy hipster designers opting for it, just to opt for it. Adobe lost most of their web tool marketshare to more nimble competitors in coding and layout right?

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

hello Walter – do you, as it were, logically, view what was outlined there as generally representing Motion?

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

If someone wanted to take on AE – you’d think they would concentrate on transformative real time mograph performance.
with clean type tools, luts, dynamics, transfer modes, advanced CC and tracked masking – with an AE compatible javascript component. Sort of a designer’s davinci.
as in forget the 3d camera at the outset – just provide the stuff you know can kill AE: a core realtime version of it.

AE feels a lot like microsoft word in that 90% of people are using less than 20% of its features. it’s nice to daydream about an incubator boiling AE down into a lean extensible real time mograph application. something equivalent to nuke as a disruptive entrant. It’s not like it can’t be done.

AE is an incredibly marshy, slow application these days. Given mograph is, essentially, iterative playback experimentation – it’s crazy how far adobe are getting away with the sluggish decades old code behaviour of AE. If you provided the core 20% of AE at close to real time you would peel off a ton of current creatives. It would be, in this software fantasy, instant hipster fashion to poo-poo that bulky AE, as they execute their work with its successor.

Adobe have already lost most of the web to nimbler software in coding and layout. Seriously – Muse anyone?

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics