[Aindreas Gallagher]

[David Lawrence] “FCPX only codifies a single specific type of relationship — a relationship drive by an engineering data model, rather than specific editor intention. When editor intentions and the data model happen to line up, the magnetic timeline works.

What about all those relationships that are implied? What happens when the forced relationships of the data hierarchy conflict with implied relationships that are more important to the editor and the edit itself?
“

this – sweet god this.

Why, in effect, would we allow an editing system to blankly ascribe canon parent child relationships, at the point of entry to the timeline, to every object in the timeline? When we are talking about the continuous process of discovery in editing? How does that make sense?

Parent child relationships in all other aspects, be they an IK chain in 3DSmax, which I know half well, or downstream effects in complex nuke/flame/smoke scenarios – which I also know having driven a flint on Indigo hardware for two years – these I understand.

However – simply umbilically tying all the elements of an edit together, without asking, clip by clip, parent to child, for no other worth than their entry onto the timeline, strikes me as utter madness.

IT’S a timeline people. Its a scenario in which my thoughts about all of the elements are liable to change.

Its my. bloody. timeline. mine.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Walter Soyka] ” the implied relationships between formally unrelated clips. Just as clips may have implied relationships in a traditional timeline by virtue of their placement, so can you end up with implied relationships in FCPX that you cannot codify with a single connection point.”

I tried to construct a rant about that above, but, you know, I’m trying to learn premiere now, so I should probably stop that – still.

Is there not an issue where FCPX is continuously divining relationships that themselves go continuously out of date? I have never gotten beyond making peasy image music experiments in FCPX, but I find the requirement to re-arrange the clip connections before an edit or a move, because they no longer represent what I want to happen kind of infuriating?

can anyone who does this in anger speak to this? Edits are utterly malleable, aren’t default parent child relationships at the point of entry to the timeline a gimmick in effect? If I am required to continuously re-arrange them in complex fluid short form edits? Lifting everything up like a lump has a certain thrill, and I actually think it benifits the rapid generation of long form doco narrative stuff more than anything – but in short form, where you are throwing things, quotes, and twelve frame cuts around like no ones business, isn’t this default “i am your father” a needless hinderance?

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

no – sorry, I mean, a functioning version of the timeline where parent child clip connections are suspended. Although it probably has messy ramifications, that I haven’t thought through.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

yes, thats true, but don’t let it get in the way of the fist waving.

For two cent, I half think apple are going to fashion a preference action on the timeline that removes clip connections from view in a future update? (if the object model allows)

Clips connections are only enacted at the point of use. In theory my selection of objects could enact them at the point of selection, as much as the initial drag to timeline. they really only exist as a grouping behaviour – its not nodal in the sense of imparting continuous downstream colour correction and matte stuff ala resolve or flame.

I always thought the parent child nodal stuff was total intellectual messing around overkill in the context of a VA editor. Its just unnecessary and heavy handed. not to mention detrimental to free form editing thought?

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

basically, I think apple talked themselves into this.

Clip connections, at heart, as you neatly point out, represent a default grouping behaviour, where apple decide to create locked relationships between the audio and video laid against their primary storyline.

but they then took this a stage further and started using phrases like “relationships” as regards clip audio and b-roll. the thing I find most annoying about it is that they make the objects children to the degree that if you choose to delete the primary parent, they are also destroyed.

this is manifestly stupid. Just because they call it the primary, does not make it the primary. the very most important things may be occuring, at any moment, between alternates in v2 and v3 – traditionally.

this issue goes as a piece with the difficulty in re-arranging clip connections before performing an edit – because apple are creating canonical relationships that rapidly become out of date due to the fluid nature of the edit, we are forced to reset the false auto-connected logic apple have imposed at the outset, and we are forced to do this, continuously, throughout the edit.

the problem in essence is that apple have chosen to create arbitrary connections at a certain point in the editing process, but those links, and their logic, are transient – further editing decisions and a rethought on relationships render apple’s tied connections invalid.

so we are left re-picking the clip connections, laboriously, through time as the nature of the edit evolves.

Its stupid on their part, and betrays a basic, simplistic stupidity about the process and iteration of editing.

it’s a very, very, very stupid timeline.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

stupid question:

so in the context we’re talking about, that would mean that v1 could contain multiple layers, and instead of a collision, we get clip layering within the one track?

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Jeremy Garchow] ”
In FCP7, the time is not as absolute as everyone makes it out to be, at least in my opinion. That clip that you put at 30 seconds does not take the ‘property of time’ any more or less than FCPX. This goes back to my comment of controlling the primary equals controlling time. With 7, if I put a clip at 30 seconds, it stays at 30 seconds until I ripple something in the timeline, or paste an insert, or insert edit, or drag the clip and move it. To me, this is the same as FCPX. If I DON’T ripple anything in the timeline that clip remains at 30 seconds. It’s really easy and not as complicated as people seem to be making it out to be. Am I wrong about that?

FCP7 does have the advantage that you can lock tracks, but this doesn’t mean you can lock one clip unless there’s a track with one clip. So this means if you want to lock one clip you have to move everything out of the appropriate a/v tracks, lock the track, do the move, then unlock, not that I ever do that as I usually just move the one clip up and down to empty tracks and move everything else around it. FCPX can make that type of move much easier, and as Oliver Peters had mentioned, you sometimes have to think and adjust connection points before you move instead move and then adjust. This is the same with tracks, you sometimes have to move clips in certain places before adding new clips. I find that with the non clip collision methods of FCPX, it’s really easy and fast to move things in and out of the primary when I need to keep time where it is. It could use some refinement, but as it stands, it is possible and no more difficult than adjusting a bunch of clips around in tracks to make room for more clips. In some cases it is much much easier even if it looks different.
“

I’m just going to negate all of this, he said grandly.

quite simply, I do not desire the natural state of my timeline to be ripple mode, and I do not desire the natural state of all of my clips to be connected, such that I am periodically required to re-arrange their relationships.

that’s it jeremy. I require an open, clean multi-track, object dis-interested timeline.

this is not a nodal compositor, apple were stupid to introduce faux child relationships when no real downstream information (as in cc correction) was being imparted – its a stupid conceit they introduced, and they are in the process of being fully punished by the market.

thats it.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

aaalrightie now – one citizen under constitution to another…

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

I can actually answer this – if you grab an edit point for a ripple trim pushing against timeline start – it actually sucks timeline start against you. timeline start is magnetic. no. i”m not kidding – its that stupid.

the default behaviour of FCPX is that time is relative to your current decision – you can suck time start absolute left against you.

again – I’m not joking – this is the degree to which they smoked special cigarettes in cupertino – in the process of destroying a decade industry standard.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Jeremy Garchow] “[Oliver Peters] “Simply that if this is your approach, then you will have to completely alter your editing strategy with FCP X.”

Indeed.

“

can we not just say it is dying on the vine now?

Isn’t this a deliciously near dead editing system? The motion of editing?

haven’t we actually killed it?

can’t we pop balloons?

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics