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Zoom H4N Line Inputs with field mixers
I have a new H4N and got a Sound Devices MixPre mixer.
The H4N seems to have no line inputs. I tried an XLR – RCA Phone (mono) adapter, and the audio coming into the H4N is still distorted.
What is the solution here. The H4N manual plainly says Line Level Inputs, as well as guitars, bass, and mics. But the manual says NOTHING about line inputs.
No, it is nowhere in the menus.
Jim
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19 Replies
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The line inputs on the H4N are the 1/4″ inputs, not the XLR inputs, and from my experience I’ve never had good luck trying to feed a line level signal (+4 or -10) into H4 or H4N without some measure of distortion. The best I’ve been able to capture was by sending a mic level signal from my mixer (Sound Devices 442) into the XLR inputs. That gives me the best sound.
Rodney Morris
Freelance Sound Technician/Mixer -
The problem is that the “line inputs” you are talking about are meant for guitars and keyboards. They are unbalanced, high impedance connections and won’t do what you’re looking for.
In my limited use of them (I’d love to own one myself, mind you), that is my one big complaint. BUT REMEMBER: you have to make your compromise somewhere. They went for the “now the consumer doesn’t need a DI box for their guitar or keyboard” instead of “let’s put 2 TRS, +4dBu jacks on this thing for the audio pros”.
If you are still getting distortion even with the gain all the way down on the H4n, you’ll need to lower the signal from the other end of the chain or pad it down inbetween.
Wolf
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I don’t know many sound practitioners who don’t carry a pair of line to mic level pads in their audio kit.
Go to the B&H or the Markertek catalog sites and search for 20db XLR inline pads.
They’ll not only solve this problem, but many others when you go to take a “line feed” in a hotel ballroom or other FOH situation and find the level is wrong.
Basic kit.
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Thanks Bill. I stared this thread. I guess I forgot to mention that I am not a professional soundman. I’m a 35 year veteran cinematographer, and arrived at a need to purchase a simple kit to do sound when shooting with my Canon 5D package. For instance, I might have a four day shoot, a road trip, traveling from town to town, and need to record one sound line. So I am just starting to build my “kit”, for very occasional use. Normally I hire professional sound recordists . . . Jim Dollarhide
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Bill, I have inline level attenuators and I’ve tried them. I still do not get acceptable recordings without inputting a mic level into the XLR jacks. I’ve tried it on just about every output available on my mixer (SD 442) using not only +4, but also -10 line level settings, including additionally using the inline attenuators. I set tone at -20 and still get occasional distortion on some of the loudest transients even though I’m not exceeding 0. I’m referring mainly to the original H4, but I’ve used the H4n and have found the same problems.
As much as I want to like the Zoom unit, its shortcomings are too much for me to consider it a professional recorder. It’s more of a pro-sumer level recorder, with a greater emphasis on consumer. The line level limitations are one thing. The non-intuitive menus are maddening. Granted the H4n is an improvement over the H4, but it’s not enough for me to put one in my bag.
Rodney Morris
Freelance Sound Technician/Mixer -
Rodney,
It seems we’ve had different experiences.
In rough terms, the difference between a mic level input and a line level output is around 40db.
So I guess it depends on the attenuators you use. If you’re expecting, for example, a 15db in-line attenuator to make enough difference, you’re correct, it simply won’t. OTOH a 40db pad should match this circumstance well. I know a LOT of music stores sell pads that end up at around 30db top end – and this MIGHT not be enough to get the job done in normal circumstances – particularly if you’re recording something like a rock band.
My XLR accessories box is ALWAYS stocked with at LEAST a pair of 10/15/20 db pads – AND a pair of 20/30/40 pads – it’s typical to use one or the other as needed, but I do remember shooting a really weird performance that involved a jet engine powered go-cart and, IIRC, I was worried I’d have to stack the 40 with another pad in order to get the level coming out of my Sennheiser MD-414 large diaphram dynamic wrestled down to something a mic input could handle!
Turned out The 40db pad worked fine by itself.
That’s sound for ya!
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Yeah, I have the 10/15/20 db attenuators, not the 20/30/40. But I also have line to mic attenuators, which would be a 40 db attenuator, roughly, so I don’t worry too much about it.
Just to be clear, I’m not trying to pad a line level with the 10/15/20 attenuator to feed into the mic input of the H4. I’ve tried using line level out of my mixer, into the 10/15/20 attenuator into the 1/4″ line level inputs of both the H4 and H4N. Doesn’t work for me. I hear distortion on the loudest transients. Go figure! So I just set my output to mic level and drive on. I’ve relegated the H4 to just transcription work, but I have used it to record a local celebrity for various radio spots and even Hallmark cards (audio greeting cards) and maybe even for some Sprint ringtones, though I think I may have used my old portable ProTools rig for that job.
Rodney Morris
Freelance Sound Technician/Mixer -
A 50db pad will drop a “0” line level output to a very useable mic level.
Eric
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Just because there are SO MANY new folks here that follow these threads, what you’re seeing here is the reality of audio production.
You start with the basics, and as you practice, you keep coming up against issues that you hadn’t had to consider before. I remember well the project Waaaay back in my career where I had to dump camcorder audio forever. Up to that point I’d been in relatively RF quiet locations and had gotten away with unbalanced audio extensions for my simple interview mics. Then I hit that location (which happened to be FULL of aquariums with little motors and fluorescent lamps – and everything BUZZED to hell and gone.
I had to pull the plug on the shoot and rent a camera with balanced mic inputs and do REAL audio. Once I faced that – I had to bite the bullet and buy a whole new camera and started collecting balanced audio equipment – much of which I still have and use today.
This is the STANDARD path from amateur to professional. You do the best you can – until some problem crops up that only better tools and learning better techniques will solve – then you either stop growing or re-invest and move forward.
That’s why there’s NOTHING wrong with using prosumer gear – or with asking for help on places like the Cow. But it’s also why when you’re confronted by concerns about a problem – and those who’ve been working professionals tell you there’s a “right way” and a “wrong way” to solve it – you’re free to choose what someone may opine is the “wrong way” but if you do, you can’t complain if something goes wrong later on.
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A balanced mic level signal at the correct impedance is the best way to get into the XLR mic inputs of the Zoom H4n distortion “free”. Forget the TRS inputs which may be the right impedance for an electric guitar but totally wrong for a mixer output connection.
Most professional field mixers have balanced line and mic outputs. Choose mic level. Line up your tone at minus 20bB below max on the Zoom; peak your conversation at 5 or 6 ppm on the mixer and way to go. Use the mixer’s limiters if need be to make sure you don’t crunch the digits on the Zoom.
The downside is having to go through the Zoom’s mic preamps while recording, but that kind of distortion, though regrettable, is far less severe than gross level and/or impedance mismatches.
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