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XDCam clip names in FCPX
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[Michael Sanders] “A clip name is a clip name is a clip name. “
But while editing, something like “ReallyAwesomeShot” has much more meaning than “12039.mxf” to an editor.
A good NLE will track all of this information, it will know exactly were 12039.mxf came from or at least point you in the right direction.
Filename is not good media management. That file name can change at any time on purpose or by mistake, as can file path. We need much more descriptive information to tell us about that file.
[Michael Sanders] “What if you export an XML and then someone want’s to load the data of the original disc?”
Ideally, whatever program is receiving the XML should know to ask for the orig disc data and it should be stored in the XML. The problem is different NLEs have different methods for accessing media when it comes to more complicated file formats like P2, XDcam or AVCHD, it’s one of the reasons Adobe Pr’s all native all the time is a blessing and a curse. Quicktime mitigated a lot of these issues, but it also introduced others. That’s why a ‘consolidate media’ function and THEN sending an XML is good practice.
If you need to match back to the original data, most likely you will need to that in the originating program.
With FCP7, for example, if you transcoded DSLR h264 files to ProRes and sent an XML to Resolve or wherever, you could not match back to the original h264 files as there’s no reel or tc.
if you rewrapped AVC-I P2 to .mov and sent that somewhere, it is hard to match to the original P2 file. This is the nature of the beast in any NLE software, and the heart of file based media management.
So, we have to think about what is best for the greatest number of situations. While file name is convenient, it’s not always best.
Jeremy
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I have no problem with FCPX doing whatever it wants to do to link the program to my files but it should not make my entire video archive dependent on FCPX. This is the same problem Apple created for iPhoto, where outside of their proprietary software & keywords you have to be patient and lucky to find a file. At least FCP7 let you rename files to clips and vice-versa. FCPX does not seem professional in its attitude towards archiving, does not make use of metadata or the Finder’s Spotlights Comments or any other tool that would allow one to search files outside their program. Unfortunately this is something I often have to do and will not surrender to the changing whims of software developers. I guess it’s back to FCP7 for ingest for now, unless Sony adds this functionality to XDCAM browser or some third-party software developer steps in…
Thanks for all your thoughtful responses!
Greg -
[Greg Pasztor] ” FCPX does not seem professional in its attitude towards archiving, does not make use of metadata or the Finder’s Spotlights Comments or any other tool that would allow one to search files outside their program. “
It is true that there needs to be further expansion, but to be fair, there aren’t many programs that interject searchable metadata in to files themselves. It’s one of the things I love about the P2 system as they have an XML sidecar that is completely searchable via spotlight. If I know that a clip name is “TotallyAwesome_001”, I can search that in Spotlight, and it would point me to the P2 XML file from which I could find the appropriate essence. The P2 XML It is also outside of the media essences (video and audio) so it makes for much quicker searching, but there is a problem in that if you lose the XML file, you stand to lose all the metadata.
It sounds like you might need a media asset manager, or catalog system. This is why I said that a databased system (and not file name based system) is more complicated, you need some sort of program to keep track of it all. With FCPX, you could argue that it does it right in the application. So, you’d search for what you need in FCPX, and then find the file in the Finder with “Reveal in Finder”.
It’d be nice if you could export more metadata in FCPXML, so that way you could select a wad of clips, export them, and attach an XML to that wad of files. I am sure functionality like this will come but it is not there yet.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “But while editing, something like “ReallyAwesomeShot” has much more meaning than “12039.mxf” to an editor.
“Could not agree more.
But if FCP can rename “DATETIMEID” to “Totally awesome shot” and link back then it can also rename “A_CAM_Disc_1_clip_2” to “totally awesome shot” Call me silly but isn’t that adding extra steps?
[Jeremy Garchow] “So, we have to think about what is best for the greatest number of situations. While file name is convenient, it’s not always best.
“But more often than not, a file name is absolute so that should be the link.
If I transcode a H264 file out of a 5D, more often than not I won’t go back to the original where as I might easily want to go back to the original files on an XDcam disc or of a clone of a card.
Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor -
[Michael Sanders] “But if FCP can rename “DATETIMEID” to “Totally awesome shot” and link back then it can also rename “A_CAM_Disc_1_clip_2” to “totally awesome shot” Call me silly but isn’t that adding extra steps?”
Adding extra steps to what?
The nice thing about the date stamp is that it’s rather unique. I have been on a number of P2 shoots where they file name is the same. It’s different cameras, different shoots, but the name is the same. So, a date stamp has less of a chance of repeating.
You also have to think about it beyond one project/Event.
Think if on every project you had “A_CAM_Disc_1_clip_2”. Even though they might be more complicated to understand at first, Unique IDs eliminate this kind of duplicity, and then you have metadata to make the clips more meaningful to the editor.
Another example of bad file name media management is Premiere Pro. If you shoot AVCHD you will know that every card starts with a clip called 0000.mts.
Let’s say you have 30 cards on the shoot, that’s 30, 0000.mts files. Let’s say by mistake, you mts file get moved (or the directory name changes, or other totally logical reason). When opening Pr will ask where “0000.mts” is located. How do you know which one of those of 30 on that shoot it is? What if you had multiple 20 card shoots on your hard drive? This means you can have 100s of clips named 0000.mts so you can’t just do a generic search on 0000.mts. Premiere will actually let you link to any file named 0000.mts, it doesn’t check reel or tc.
I am not saying FCPX is perfect, it’s not, but there are decent reasons for a time_date stamp.
[Michael Sanders] “If I transcode a H264 file out of a 5D, more often than not I won’t go back to the original where as I might easily want to go back to the original files on an XDcam disc or of a clone of a card.”
YOU might not want to, but someone might want to. What if the transcode was done incorrectly, or the drives that was holding all the transcodes are nuked and the only thing you have left is the original on a shelved backup drive?
The hardest part of all of this is trying to leave as many options open for the greatest number of uses, users, and applications.
Jeremy
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I’ll also just note that this brings up the topic of having a metadata strategy set up in advance.
That’s ultimately what avoids ending up with 30 files named “voiceover” regardless of what capabilities are built into the program or into the origination filenames.
The other critical thing is the point at which you establish or change your names.
I’ve kinda learned that doing that as early in your workflow as possible pays large benefits later.
In fact, I’ve got a small personal, project underway to craft some simple very short narrated videos that discuss the whole Idea of clip naming in FCP-X. (trying to condition myself to work in the ever shorter forms of modern video!)
My self-deadline is before my July 10th to 16th trek with the household teens to ComiCon in SD, but whenever I get them done I’m going to post them to YouTube as an experiment – and I’ll put a link here for anyone who might find them useful.
And, of course, since they’ll be free, they’ll at least maybe be worth what they cost!
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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I’ll look forward to it Bill! The first thing I do with all footage is a quick visit to the XDCAM browser to add a set of global metadata (in a batch) and then individual clip names-comments-etc. Then I back up the BPAV for safety. I then import the rewrapped renamed clips using XDCAM transfer which becomes my ‘searchable’ archive (and the folder I bring into FCPX Event browser). I wish the Sony browser software would ‘rewrap’ their files to QT with the logged metadata and clip titles as an export option…but at least the FCP7 XDCAM transfer program will.
I really like being able to find stuff…and to be reminded of things I forgot! It would be nice if the video software folks paid as much attention to metadata & searches (& copyright!) as the still photography industry.
Greg -
[Greg Pasztor] “It would be nice if the video software folks paid as much attention to metadata & searches (& copyright!) as the still photography industry. “
It’s getting there. I am glad that people are finally starting to pay attention to it as you can see how powerful it can be.
Adobe has XMP, but the implementation is nothing short of confusing as it works sometimes, but not others, and while it seems to have a lot of promise, you can’t control the metadata very well and it’s connected to the rest of the suite.
FCPX also has a ton of metadata capabilities, but there also needs to be more control and currently needs to be more ways to get the information in and out via XML.
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[Greg Pasztor] “but it should not make my entire video archive dependent on FCPX. This is the same problem Apple created for iPhoto, where outside of their proprietary software & keywords you have to be patient and lucky to find a file. “
Hmmm..I have to disagree. I believe it is still our responsibility to keep track of the data on the finder level. Naming Reels/Camera/Operator/Day is at first our job. So we can always come back to it fast.
In FCPX i usually create keyword collections out if the folder name, so it matches my finder.
So I know where the file is easily and can find it by its timecode or creation time.What I do to the name within FCPX has no impact on that.
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Hi, just joining this thread,
In theory I don’t have a problem with FCPX managing my clip names for me, however, in practice I can see a problem, for example with DSLR footage.
Because of the ways DSLRs number clips, you will end up with many clips with the exact same name in different events. Wouldn’t this cause problems for the database in the event that clips ever need to be reconnected? That’s what worries me.
So, being able to give each clip its own unique name is important to me. Wish there was an easy way to do this.
Oren
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