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wwdc
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[Darren Roark] “It’s nice in PP, it allows you to download and import footage into PP in one go, essentially it’s a web browser window inside PP that allows some interaction with the NLE.
The FCP X helper app does what I need it to which is give me a ‘set and forget’ upload cue.”
Yeah, it’s pretty impressive that almost everything you can do via the Frame.io website you can do in the Frame.io panel in PPro. I think the account management features are they only things in the panel that redirect you back to the site.
Being able to link exported sequences to a timeline in PPro is a great feature and has streamlined and improved my workflow on the two projects I’ve used it with. I certainly would not find Frame.io as helpful w/o the PPro panel.
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[Jeremy Garchow] ” If the MacPro line was dead, they would kill it.”
Everything is alive until it’s dead. 😉 I think the Pod Classic was in suspended animation about five years before Apple pulled the plug. I’m not saying I think the MP pro line is dead (yet) and I hope it’s not because it would be a shame if the iMac became the top of the line desktop offering from Apple. I want to replace my ’09 MP (I’ve been wanting to replace it for a while now) and I want to replace it w/a nMP, but I just can’t justify the price for a machine announced in 2013 containing GPUs that were new in 2012.
[Jeremy Garchow] “the MacPro might not be the best value at the moment, and my guess is Apple knows it, so why would they buy the most expensive pieces for no return?”
I don’t follow. Wouldn’t what I’m suggesting (a price drop or a speed bump) improve the value of the nMP? Apple always has healthy margins on their hardware (and it’s gotta be really healthy by now with how old the nMP hardware is) so it’s not like I’m saying they should take a hit on each nMP sold I’d just like the upgrades to come sooner than once every three years. Besides Apple just doing this because they can, the only thing I can think of is that the custom GPUs in the nMP are so expensive to design and build for such a limited production run that it’s not cost effective to upgrade them as often as normal graphics cards get updated.
I’m just trying to understand what advantages there are, from a user’s perspective, of such an unusually long product cycle with no speed bumps and no price adjustments.
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[Andrew Kimery] “Wouldn’t what I’m suggesting (a price drop or a speed bump) improve the value of the nMP?”
I don’t know. Would it? How would a machine that’s still old be any more valuable at 10% less the price? Does intel give Apple a discount on the Xeons because they are ‘old’?
Here’s an article about architects saying Apple is screwing up because they don’t put i7s in the MacPros: https://architosh.com/2016/06/if-jobs-failed-twice-why-would-ives-team-succeed-rip-new-mac-pro/
The i7s perform better than the Xeons for their applications, and in some cases, that is true with video applications as well, unless you need processor power for transcoding/rendering in a CPU based architecture. Do you need a ton of CPU to playback a multicam edit? No.
The article wants to “Scale up” to the cheaper, cooler, smaller, more efficient and more powerful……i7. So why spend a lot time and effort (and a lot of money) to buy Xeons?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “So why spend a lot time and effort (and a lot of money) to buy Xeons?”
There are two and half reasons to buy a Xeon over an i7:
1) Support for multiple processors.
2) Support for ECC RAM.
2.5) Designed for continuous operation under load. (Translation: clocked lower.)Since the nMP is single-socket, I agree the i7 would have been a better choice for nearly all applications.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Andrew Kimery] “Being able to link exported sequences to a timeline in PPro is a great feature and has streamlined and improved my workflow on the two projects I’ve used it with. I certainly would not find Frame.io as helpful w/o the PPro panel.”
Andrew, would you mind expanding on this a bit? How are you using Frame.io in your workflow overall, and what are you doing directly in the panel that has made such a difference?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I don’t know. Would it? How would a machine that’s still old be any more valuable at 10% less the price? Does intel give Apple a discount on the Xeons because they are ‘old’?”
Generally speaking old tech is less valuable because it has been surpassed by better, cheaper, faster tech so in order for the old tech to still be a good value to buyers (in terms of price/performance) it gets a price reduction. I think I paid around $2,500 for my MBP in 2011 but there is no way in hell in I would pay $2500 for a 2011 MBP today when I can get a 2015 MBP for around the same price. As far as Apple and Intel deal, I’m sure Apple got a good wholesale discount and I’d be surprised if component depreciation wasn’t factored into the deal. If it was a regular seller/buyer, retail relationship then yes, I would have to say that generally speaking Intel, like other companies, does sell its older generation products at lower prices compared to its newer generation products (taking into considering that different product tiers have different price structures of course).
When I used to build gaming PCs as a hobby I never had the budget for bleeding edge speed which meant I either bought middle of the road components the year they came out or I wanted a year or so and bought former best in class components that had seen a price drop so their price/performance ratio was more in line with my budget and needs. Hell, even video game consoles typically see the first round of price drops about 18-24 months after launch, and thanks to decreased component costs and increased production efficiency their margins either stay the same or get better. Of course a video game console is going to have an economy of scale that the nMP could only dream of. Maybe that’s the problem?
Maybe The nMPs are doing so poorly that Apple can’t afford to upgrade them often and don’t have the economy of scale that allows them to do a price cut w/o cutting to deeply into their margins. If that’s the case then it does make wonder why Apple would keep making such a low performing product. Or maybe it’s just Apple being Apple and they have more important things to focus on so they’ll get to the nMP whenever they get to the nMP.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Here’s an article about architects saying Apple is screwing up because they don’t put i7s in the MacPros: https://architosh.com/2016/06/if-jobs-failed-twice-why-would-ives-team-succe...”
That article pretty much echoes my sentiments though it’s much more damning of Apple’s decisions than I’ve been in this thread. I’m just asking for a speed bump or a price drop but that article basically says the nMP is a fundamentally ill-conceived computer that, w/o a major course correction, is going to tank like the Cube. I didn’t realize how poor of a choice going with the single Xeon vs a single i7 was. Apple also literally doubled down on GPU performance being the wave of the future yet that doesn’t seem to have panned out either. We have more apps levering the GPU but it still seems like a lot more productivity, generally speaking, is tethered to the CPU. Add to that the other common complaints (excessive form of function, limited upgradeability, close competition from 5K i7 iMac, etc.,) and it sounds like Apple wasn’t paying very close attention to how the nMP would actually perform in the wild.
[Jeremy Garchow] “So why spend a lot time and effort (and a lot of money) to buy Xeons?”
Where did I say that? I just want a faster MP more than once every 3+ years or a price drop since they are selling the same computer that was released in 2013 (w/GPUs that were new in 2012). If an i7 is faster in practical application than a Xeon then put an i7 in it. If AMD hasn’t improved their GPUs since 2012 then Apple hitched their cart to the wrong horse. If they have improved their GPUs why haven’t those improvements made their way into the nMP? Or is there no real logical explanation other than it’s just Apple being Apple?
I came into this discussion mostly lamenting that the 2013 nMP was overpriced by 2016 standards, but now you have me thinking it’s a very flawed machine born out of hubris and groupthink, thanks Jeremy. 😉
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[Andrew Kimery] “Generally speaking old tech is less valuable because it has been surpassed by better, cheaper, faster tech so in order for the old tech to still be a good value to buyers (in terms of price/performance) it gets a price reduction.”
I’m not that much of an idiot. I know what you’re talking about.
[Andrew Kimery] “I came into this discussion mostly lamenting that the 2013 nMP was overpriced by 2016 standards, but now you have me thinking it’s a very flawed machine born out of hubris and groupthink, thanks Jeremy. ;)”
Hey, no problem. Apple did the same pattern with the Cheesegrater. Kept it on sale with “old” tech, didn’t say anything about it, didn’t kill it. With Thunderbolt 3 coming (but not quite “here” in Apple terms), I’d imagine we are in the same sort of waiting game.
In the meantime, keep your 2009 computer working, and skip right to Thunderbolt 3 when it’s ready.
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[Walter Soyka] “Andrew, would you mind expanding on this a bit? How are you using Frame.io in your workflow overall, and what are you doing directly in the panel that has made such a difference?”
Sure.
For example, say I finish Rough Cut v2 and I want to upload it to Frame.io so my director can make notes. I just go to my Frame.io project w/in the Frame.io panel (assuming I’m not already in it), hit “upload”, select “active sequence” (or choose my seq if the one I want to upload is currently the active one) and it will automatically launch Media Encoder, compress my sequence and upload it to Frame.io (all of this progress I can see in the Frame.io panel). Similar functionality I think to what you get with the FCP X helper app.
Once it’s uploaded to Frame.io it will show up in my panel (as Darren mentioned the Frame.io panel is pretty much a perfect copy of what you see if you are logged into Frame.io via a web browser). My director will then make comments on Rough Cut v2 in Frame.io (the comments act basically like markers). With the Rough Cut v2 movie open in my Frame.io panel I can click on one of the director’s comments and it will snap the playhead in my Rough Cut v2 sequence to the exact same frame. This one way link from the export in Frame.io to the timeline is automatic, but you can manually set it (or turn it off) as well.
You can also upload bins or the entire PPro project file but I haven’t tried those out yet.
Frame.io, by itself, is much better than the vimeo/dropbox + email method that I had been using before, and Frame.io in a PPro Panel just doubles down on the good because it puts 99% of Frame.io’s functionality directly in my NLE. The team at Frame.io has just done an amazing job with the panel and hopefully they’ll be able to bring the same level of functionality to other NLEs too.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I’m not that much of an idiot. I know what you’re talking about.
“Didn’t mean to imply you were an idiot, but it’s so easy to accidentally talk past each other on line that sometimes I’m not sure when to keep going and when I’ve already belabored the point.
[Jeremy Garchow] “In the meantime, keep your 2009 computer working, and skip right to Thunderbolt 3 when it’s ready.”
That’s my plan… as painfully long, and drawn out as it’s becoming. hahaha. I’d be fine with an 5K iMac as a stop gap machine but I know as soon as I buy the a new MP will be announced and then I’ll be in a new waiting mess. Do I sell the iMac I just bought for a loss and get the new MP or do I wait a couple of years for a better MP? If I decide wait how long will I have to wait? And suddenly it’s 2019, my 5K iMac is old and creaky, the 2016 nMP hasn’t seen a price change or spec bump in three years and I’m wondering if the MP line is dead or not! 😉
This is why my life would be easier if Apple just buffed the specs every 12-18 months like they used to! lol
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Good first look at Sierra
https://www.loopinsight.com/2016/06/22/first-look-macos-sierra/
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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