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[Walter Soyka] “But isn’t it weird that the Resolve problem is so prevalent on nMP D700 configurations, and so rare with all others?”
It could well be that Apple underestimated the heat-related design criteria associated with this chip running at full-blast. FWIW – my son runs a mid-tier nMP primarily for Logic Pro X and he’s been very happy. No issues to speak of.
It’s also quite interesting that many folks find the top-of-the-line iMac a superior machine, even though it shouldn’t be on paper.
The ultimate irony is that 6 and 7 year-old machines seem to hold their own, with hardware upgrades. Whoda thunk it?!
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I have no doubts that Apple hardware isn’t perfect. What hardware does not have a mtbf, especially ones that generate considerable heat?”
I think the rub with the nMP is the target audience is the least likely of Apple’s user base to say, “Hey, please nerf this thing to make it as small and quiet as possible because I’m more concerned about that than getting the most out of the dual GPUs you ship placed inside of it.” Yet for a machine with two “workstation class GPUs” (Apple’s words) the cooling seems to be subpar if you want to use as a workstation for no reason other than aesthetics (I’ve even read that the GPUs in the nMP are underclocked to try to keep heat in check).
[Jeremy Garchow] “I am certainly not absolving Apple of doing weird things. 10 blown out MacPros in a production would be enough to switch to a beefy PC, but the sky is not falling quite yet.”
In other threads I’ve read the glitchy Resolve renders were solved by running Windows instead of OS X which points to maybe a software/driver issue and instead of hardware. Along the same lines there are a number of people (including myself) that have/had issues in PPro when running certain versions of OS X (10.9.x and 10.10.x IIRC) with Nvidia GPUs with CUDA turned on (the problems go away when using OpenCL). Adobe says it’s a driver problem and Nvida says it’s an Apple problem. So far the only fix seems to be doing a clean install of OS X 10.11.x (which implies it’s an bad driver from Apple that doesn’t get replaced unless you do a ground up install of OS X).
There is also the manufacturing defect on all MBP from 2010-2013 (off the top of my head I think that’s the range) which eventually bricks them because the GPU fries from improperly applied thermal paste.
Overall I think the negative reaction is the other edge of Apple’s “we control it all in order to provide a better user experience” stance. When it works they get high fives for being awesome, when it doesn’t work they get all the blame (which usually is compounded by their silence/secrecy). For example, it took years for Apple to admit that the first gen cMP shipped a faulty GPU and by the time they issued a recall most of those faulty GPUs had already failed and been replaced (Apple just seems to have a history of GPU related problems for some reason).
And just to prove I’m not just ragging on Apple, in my personal experience Blackmagic typically over-promises and under-delivers with their hardware. Many times disabling BM Mini Monitor will resolve any ‘weirdness’ I might have in PPro and a friends BM Ultra Studio Express has new life as a paperweight.
[Jeremy Garchow] “The more interesting part of the Deadpool articles is the reliance of third parties to fix workflow holes, something that Apple gets tremendous sh*t for, for whatever reason. Adobe gets celebrated for having, nay, needing third party workflow helpers.”
IMO the difference stems in large part from differing approaches by Apple and Adobe. Adobe, like most of us are used it, applies a lot of first party changes to PPro where as Apple, in a departure from what most of us are used to, relies much more on third parties to expand functionality in X. For example, and since we are already talking about interchange between apps, Wes Plate goes to Adobe and helps create some solid round tripping between PPro, AE and SG. Wes then exists and creates Xsend-Motion which is a $100, third party plugin that gives users functionality similar to the Send to Motion feature that used to exist between FCP and Motion. 3D text is another example. Apple added rather basic functionality to X, but it was third parties that really leveraged it to its full potential.
As someone who is just starting to get into X, I think it’s harder to see the full scope of what X can do because you have to be much more in tune with the third party devs than you do for Adobe or Avid (or even FCP Legend). That leads to the feeling that Apple is disinterested in X but, disinterested or not, does it matter in the end as long as someone (first or third party) provides the functionality you are looking for at a reasonable price?
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[Walter Soyka] “In your cases and in mine, I’d consistently blame the hardware/drivers. In your cases, BMD makes the hardware and writes the drivers. In mine, Apple does.
I’m not looking for a gotcha here. The nMP is still a pretty nice machine for its size. But isn’t it weird that the Resolve problem is so prevalent on nMP D700 configurations, and so rare with all others?
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/88655 for more.”
From that thread: https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/88655#88831
I really don’t know what to believe other than Apple is replacing a very limited set of what seems to be, defective or near defective AMD boards. That, to me, exemplifies the issue.
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Userland software should not be able to damage hardware, ever. The hardware itself, or the hardware/driver package, should prevent that by design.
Apple knows what’s wrong with its boards better than I do, and I certainly believe them that the specific defect in the recall is limited to that production run. All I’m saying is that there are a number of users pushing this hardware in the real world, seeing reliability issues, who believe that this is not the only defect in the nMP line.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Oliver Peters] “It’s also quite interesting that many folks find the top-of-the-line iMac a superior machine, even though it shouldn’t be on paper.”
It makes sense, though. Different specs matter to different applications. Apple’s support for Intel’s QuickSync on the i7 helps it stomp the nMP for H.264, for example.
[Oliver Peters] “The ultimate irony is that 6 and 7 year-old machines seem to hold their own, with hardware upgrades. Whoda thunk it?!”
Again, depends on the app. Look at a shiny new HP Z-something or BOXX APEXX-whatever for 3D rendering (CPU) or Flame (OpenGL) — there’s a big performance difference over those 7 years.
Desktop NLEs don’t need the relative power they used to. Good throughput to fast-ish storage and a reasonable GPU offers plenty of performance for editorial, and you don’t need a workstation for that anymore.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Andrew Kimery] “That leads to the feeling that Apple is disinterested in X but, disinterested or not, does it matter in the end as long as someone (first or third party) provides the functionality you are looking for at a reasonable price?”
I agree that some people come to that conclusion. In my experience having 3’rd parties provide the non-core functionality is great. They can (and do) push out fixes faster when needed, you can actually reach them with concerns, and they are specialists in whatever function they’re providing.
Using Adobe hiring Wes again as an example, he went there, bolted the AD stuff into Pr, and then he left. Now, If something goes wrong with their AAF export, how longs it gonna take to fix it? Will they fix it? Who knows? I can remember waiting a ridiculously long time for issues with EDL’s/OMF to get sorted out in FCP 7. Now, I just email the developers and, if it’s a real problem and not me screwing something up, it get’s fixed pretty quickly.
I think by adding the ability to truly extend the app, it shows that Apple is actually more interested in getting added functions into X. And the functions 3rd parties add to FCP X are pretty extensive. There was a real 3D environment available for FCP X long before 3D text. 😉
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~\”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.\”~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~\”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented\”~ -
[Charlie Austin] “Now, I just email the developers and, if it’s a real problem and not me screwing something up, it get’s fixed pretty quickly.”
Good point. And I wonder if 3rd parties feel more comfortable developing for X than PPro since they are less likely to have Apple one up them with a first party feature. For example, I’m much less likely to use Colorista II now given what Adobe has done with the Lumetri Color feature inside PPro. Does that make Red Giant less likely to keep developing Colorista for PPro, or is it the normal push and pull where Red Giant will look to up it’s game/add some unique functionality to keep Colorista viable? Of course with that being said I was reminded by a dev the other day that FCP Legend had hundreds of 3rd party plugins so I guess even with first party upgrades there is still lots of room for 3rd parties to fill in niches.
For being so developer dependent you’d Apple would loosen up the reigns more on X to 3rd parties even more flexibility. For example, I’m loving the Frame.io panel in PPro but to the best of my layman-level knowledge it’s not currently possible to build the same functionality inside of X.
[Charlie Austin] “There was a real 3D environment available for FCP X long before 3D text. ;-)”
I did not realize that. What did Apple’s additions of 3D text bring to the table if a 3D environment was already available inside of X?
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[Andrew Kimery] “For being so developer dependent you’d Apple would loosen up the reigns more on X to 3rd parties even more flexibility. For example, I’m loving the Frame.io panel in PPro but to the best of my layman-level knowledge it’s not currently possible to build the same functionality inside of X.”
Frame.io works pretty seamlessly in X, And they’ve stated they’re working to integrate it even more. I have it, but don’t really use it, maybe someone who does will chime in..
[Andrew Kimery] “I did not realize that. What did Apple’s additions of 3D text bring to the table if a 3D environment was already available inside of X?”
Honestly I think just the ability to make real 3D titles which, despot the railing against the function, is super useful for what i do. The fact that you can “trick” it into using glyphs as objects to do al sorts of crazy things is a side effect. Honestly, it’s way more useful in Motion because you have much more control over cameras. lighting etc. mObject, which is the plugin I was referring to, has been around for quite a while, is much more full featured.————————————————————-
~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~\”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.\”~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~\”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented\”~ -
[Charlie Austin] “Frame.io works pretty seamlessly in X, And they’ve stated they’re working to integrate it even more. I have it, but don’t really use it, maybe someone who does will chime in..”
The key difference is that Apple won’t allow the kind of panel concept the way Adobe does. They do allow the floating HUDs, but somehow that seems to be a loophole that developers have smartly capitalized on. I suspect Apple is not really wild about the aesthetics of that.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Charlie Austin] “And they’ve stated they’re working to integrate it even more. I have it, but don’t really use it, maybe someone who does will chime in..
“It’s nice in PP, it allows you to download and import footage into PP in one go, essentially it’s a web browser window inside PP that allows some interaction with the NLE.
The FCP X helper app does what I need it to which is give me a ‘set and forget’ upload cue.
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