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Working Over the weekend…
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[Richard Cardonna] “Adobe is maybe the only one that does not offer any hw but they are expanding into other areas in internet business.”
Adobe is a committed, cross-platform, software only solution. It provides some distinct advantages, but there have been times when I wish we could purchase a hardware company. Long term, I like being a software-only company.
Dennis – Adobe guy
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[Bill Davis] “Perhaps it never works that way on your side of the pond… but if I had a dollar for every production pro I’ve ever talked to who lost a position to someone “better connected” by birth or marriage to a working pro in the industry, I’d be able to… well, to buy a lot more nice toys.”
Bill, I live on your side of the Pond and while there is plenty of nepotism in the film industry three is very little in the editing side of it. Unlike production, editing is very meritocratic. What family relationships often give you is opportunity and exposure, sometimes at a very young age, which is an advantage in building a career, but that said, if you can’t cut you won’t last and if you are talented and determined you will.
My being neither connected nor talented, I got by on pure luck, which to paraphrase the great sage, is better than either.
I will add that your constant references to the “high priests” of editing does make you sound rather envious and petty. Personally, I like to think of us as the “whiners.”
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[kim krause] “after all avid works on a mac premiere works on macs davinci works on a mac as does color as does pro tools as does photoshop…..”
Most of those programs work faster on a PC because of the availability better graphics cards. You also have options for more expansion slots, capable of supporting multiple graphics cards among other things, the lack of which I find very frustrating on a Mac. Plus there’s the very real possibility of Apple getting out of the workstation business, making an investment in PC infrastructure more compelling.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “I will add that your constant references to the “high priests” of editing does make you sound rather envious and petty. Personally, I like to think of us as the “whiners.”
“Yeah. I get a giggle. As a class, we’re basically down here in the boiler room, stoking the furnace and keeping the pipes from exploding. All of this “high priest” and “country club set” is pretty fantastic. Beggar Kings, I guess.
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[Chris Harlan] “Of course, but comparing Apple and Avid is like comparing Watermelons and Cranberries. The economic dynamics that effect them are very different. “
And Avid is failing for 5 consecutive years now.
Failure is not a viable business model.
Yes I can compare. I’m not comparing revenue or market share or features. I’m comparing successful vs unsuccessful business models.[Chris Harlan] “Thirty years ago, broadcast was a niche market, and the prices reflected that. Commoditization of computers, commoditization of Internet access, and proliferation of cheep video cameras has created markets well beyond that niche.”
That avoids the issue. Much of the Broadcast and Feature Film market expect to pay the commoditized price. Media Composer at $2500 is proving not to be viable for Avid unless they sell Unity and Isis as well. That niche market is too small to sustain Avid on Media Composer sales. They haven’t been able to expand Unity and Isis sales.
Avid has only a couple of choices either come up with a desirable high priced item for the niche or expand beyond the niche with something commoditized.[Chris Harlan] “Yes, prices will go up. “
Avid may have to do that at the risk that the niche won’t look elsewhere. I’m not sure a $60,000 and up NLE would sell to the niche though. That’s what Avid used to do and they haven’t come up with a viable business alternative.
[Chris Harlan] “I get that you are trying to do that, but you seem to have it solidly in your mind that their is only one her of business and that riding commoditization grassfire”
I don’t claim that that’s the only way. It’s just the Apple is doing it I believe.
Avid hasn’t presented the alternative. There are certainly other companies that survive in niche markets selling high priced items. Avid isn’t one of them. -
[Craig Seeman] “I don’t claim that that’s the only way. It’s just the Apple is doing it I believe.
Avid hasn’t presented the alternative. There are certainly other companies that survive in niche markets selling high priced items. Avid isn’t one of them.”Dude you are taking this in circles, and I’m not even sure what you are arguing anymore. Here’s where I cam into the conversation:
“[Craig Seeman] “i think one of the problems, as I see it, in the language used in the forum, is whether “Pros” are “important” but I think the better question is whether “Pros” (broadcast and feature film) represent a profitable margin and what Apple might do, in anything, to make it profitable (increase margins).”
From Apple’s POV, that should certainly be the position; but why should it be so from my POV? I wasn’t under the impression that this forum existed primarily to feed the needs of Apple.”
I stand by that. I care about what I need, not what Apple needs.
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[Walter Soyka] “Are they interested in traditional marketing concepts like “target markets?””
Sure but what they target may be very broad.
Even iPhones are targeted differently than Androids.
One might say iPhones focus on those who want Ease of Use. Android phones focuses on Freedom, big screens, features such as 4G. They target differently even if to an otherwise similar demographic. Apple’s added some price targeting with free 3GS and $99 4 phones.
Certainly if one watches the TV commercials, the targeting seems pretty clear as well.[Walter Soyka] “Does business unit profitability matter if the unit doesn’t fit in the long-term strategy? Conversely, wouldn’t an unprofitable business unit be sustained if it were of high strategic value?”
The short answer is “it depends” and there’s a lot to “depends.” A good example of that is what HP just went through with the back and forth on Computers (including workstations).
Basically that’s why I’ve been bringing up Business Model as a term lately.
That’s also why I’m trying to differentiate between people who claim Apple has become a “consumer” company whereas I believe they are becoming a “commodity” company. Some may see that as one and the same but I don’t. I think Apple doesn’t either. I think they’re moving towards high volume sales and I think they believe they can even hit the “Pro” market with that (not that I know that will succeed). I think that’s what they will TRY to do with FCPX and whatever replaces the MacPro. Again I don’t mean to conflate Attempt with Succeed. I do think that’s what they’re targeting. -
[Chris Harlan] “I’ve certainly seen my share of that, Bill, but usually not in editorial, where people generally have to be skilled and responsible. Also, the long solitary hours don’t really act as an incentive. I’m not sure I’d call it a dream job, unless it is the kind of thing you are driven to.”
That’s right, and unlike executives who can often survive on nepotism alone, those in the key technical and creative crafts (editing for example) can get a foot through the door because of their connections, but they can only sustain a career if they can carry their weight and create the goods.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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[Craig Seeman] “Much of the Broadcast and Feature Film market expect to pay the commoditized price. “
I don’t believe that’s true. Not in the sense that the tools are cheaper so the budgets are as well. Rather that there are so many more media outlets available that any given destination will yield fewer eyeballs. The total pie has about the same amount of money. We are simply being offered smaller slices as a trickle-down of what producers can expect. The biggest component in most budgets is labor and not gear.
Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Chris Harlan] “I stand by that. I care about what I need, not what Apple needs.”
Can Avid meet your needs if they fold?
Adobe and Apple though are both healthy. They both have ecosystem approaches although Adobe is software based and Apple is tied into hardware.
What is offered to meet your needs is very much dependent on the company business models.
Discreet(Autodesk) Edit met needs. Many like it. They left the market.
Does Quantel meet your needs?The business model is inescapable and inextricably tied to meeting needs. Any separation is an artifice of language in my opinion.
Companies offer what meets THEIR needs as well and if it doesn’t meet their needs they won’t offer something that meets yours.
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