Workflow Question: HDV to Color/Effects to 24P Uncompressed HD or ProRes

[Script-to-film]

Which of the above workflows is best? Or can you guys suggest a better workflow? Thanks.

[David Roth weiss]

Before concerning yourself with all these technical concerns, you should finish your project, color correct it to the best of your ability, make a DVD and enter it into a bunch festivals to see if people like your story.

Since you don’t have distribution, why get into the time-consuming business of creating deliverables when you have no idea how you might be required to tailor your final product?

Real buyers will not be wowed by 24p, they will be wowed by great writing and storytelling. If you can deliver on those two, the buyers who see your work at festivals will beat down your door and they will pay for your conversion to 24p or a filmout if your projects warrants either of them.

Good luck,
David

“No job is worth doing more than once…”

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

[Russell Lasson]

[David Roth Weiss] “Real buyers will not be wowed by 24p,”

I don’t know. There is a big difference between 60i and 23.98. 60i feels like tv and news. 23.98 feels more cinematic. If you have the time and the budget, I’d convert it to 24P. (Acutally I’d shoot on a camera that can do true 23.98)

You really need to do a couple of test and convert them to 23.98. I suggest you try one test at true 60i in camera and another with the camera’s cinema like mode.

For converting, you should also look at Nattress Standards Converter. It might do what you want just as well as any of the other options (maybe better.) What do you think Graeme?

But David does have a point about trying not to do too much work for nothing. If you don’t know what you’re doing with Color, it will probably need to be re-color corrected before a film out or digital cinema out. Plus you’d probably need to deliver a DPX sequence for either process and that will depend on who’s distributing it. It can get pretty hairy.

-Russ

[David Roth weiss]

[Russell Lasson] “I don’t know. There is a big difference between 60i and 23.98. 60i feels like tv and news. 23.98 feels more cinematic.”

Russell,

I assure you, millions of dollars could be saved and thousands of careers advanced if just half as much time in this world were spent on visionary thinking, conceptualization and great writing as on giving video the “filmlook.” Unless one aspires to make shows like HDNet’s Bikini Destinations, its not just about pretty pictures…

Read my article on page 52 in the latest Cow Magazine – its entitled “Cheaper, faster, better – how about smarter?”. Technology is cheap these days and anyone can buy it. Buyers know that… Intelligent content creation requires hard work and hard thinking. That’s what buyers want to see.

David

“No job is worth doing more than once…”

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

[Russell Lasson]

[David Roth Weiss] “I assure you, millions of dollars could be saved and thousands of careers advanced if just half as much time in this world were spent on visionary thinking, conceptualization and great writing as on giving video the “filmlook.” Unless one aspires to make shows like HDNet’s Bikini Destinations, its not just about pretty pictures..”

I completely agree with you. Story, style, design, great actors are all more important than having a 24P look.

So Script-to-film Person who started this post, spend your time making a really, really great movie, then convert it to 24P 🙂

-Russ

[David Roth weiss]

[Russell Lasson] “So Script-to-film Person who started this post, spend your time making a really, really great movie, then convert it to 24P :)”

Good one Russ!!!

“No job is worth doing more than once…”

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

[Script-to-film]

Thanks for the insight, guys. I couldn’t agree more. I just read on another post someone naysaying another filmmaker for using HDV on a feature. In response to a humble and enthusiastic kid with potentially a great script, he said “Are you kidding? HDV and the Z1 is barely semi pro kit, a feature must be in your dreams I would humbly suggest.” This kind of stuff is like poison. It neglects a huge history of independent filmmaking. The best stuff isn’t necessarily the prettiest stuff that’s shot on Uncompressed Red HD or 35mm. It’s the most interesting stuff. Filmmaking is about story! And it’s like we’re 1800s authors arguing about what typeface and paper looks the most professional. It’s the words that count the most. Not that other stuff isn’t important, but jeez, some people are so hung up on the little stuff that they can’t even see the important things. At Cannes Film Festival in 2003, “Tarnation” won. It was shot on 8mm, Hi8 and miniDV video. From a technical standpoint it looked like crap. But it was extremely interesting and well put together. That’s what counts.

All that being said, which of the workflows would you recommend if I wanted to output a 24P DVD for festival review. You honestly think I should forget 24p for now and just submit when I’m done and see what happens later? If that’s the case, should I still color correct in Color or Shake or just use the 8-bit FCP 3way? Thanks.

Script-to-film

[David Roth weiss]

[Script-to-film] “Thanks for the insight, guys. I couldn’t agree more.”

First, I commend you for making your film (okay video), and next for your great attitude.

[Script-to-film] “All that being said, which of the workflows would you recommend if I wanted to output a 24P DVD for festival review. You honestly think I should forget 24p for now and just submit when I’m done and see what happens later? If that’s the case, should I still color correct in Color or Shake or just use the 8-bit FCP 3way? Thanks.”

If you simply must go ahead with the 24p/filmlook thing before submitting to festivals, then get yourself Graeme Natress’ Film Effects V2.5.2 and forge ahead. Color Correction with the 3-way CC in FCP should do you just fine for the festival pass. When a buyer pays you to color correct, then use all the tools in your arsenal.

Good luck,
David

“No job is worth doing more than once…”

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

[Russell Lasson]

[Script-to-film] “All that being said, which of the workflows would you recommend if I wanted to output a 24P DVD for festival review. You honestly think I should forget 24p for now and just submit when I’m done and see what happens later? If that’s the case, should I still color correct in Color or Shake or just use the 8-bit FCP 3way? Thanks.”

In all honesty, I should have asked what type of film it is. Narrative, documentary, extreme sports show, etc. You might be fine with the 60i look depending on the artistry of the film.

If you like the 60i look, then there’s no problem.

If you like the 23.98 look, I’d edit at 60i, then convert it to 24P. I’d take it into Color to fix some scene that need it or to give the show a look, but don’t spend too much time on it because it will mostly likely need to be re-colored once it gets picked up.

-Russ

[Paul Dickin]

[David Roth Weiss] “No job is worth doing more than once…”
Robert Flaherty’s Nanook was. 🙂
Quote:
“D.A. Pennebaker offers another interpretation of the Nanook fire, suggesting that Flaherty did not like the first version of the film and destroyed it himself, then made up the story of the fire so that the sponsors would still put up more money.”
https://www.horschamp.qc.ca/new_offscreen/dangerous_film.html

Have a great idea/script and any delivery problems can be solved, including starting again – (g)…