Workaround for QuickTime Renders in AE CC 2018?

[Walter Soyka]

[Steve Bentley] “As for some AE 2018 versions still supporting codecs like Animation: version <=15.03 (of 2018) still supports Qt but as soon as you let CC upgrade you to the 15.1 or higher, you’re done.”

This gets confusing fast. QuickTime is a file format, QuickTime is a library/API for programmers, and QuickTime is an application. Even though the QuickTime library and application are deprecated, Adobe still offers some support for QuickTime movies.

Animation codec in a QuickTime wrapper is natively supported by Adobe via MediaCore. Apple QuickTime is not required, and it works on 15.1 and up.

See here for a list of QuickTime formats supported in Ae v15.1 and beyond, without any reliance on Apple QuickTime:
https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/quicktime7-support-dropped.html

[Steve Bentley] ” I’m not a fan of the Avid one but I hadn’t thought of the Cineform one. We’ll give that whirl.”

CineForm is great. It has been a really nice cross-platform solution for our shop.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Steve Bentley]

Re multiple uses of QT: good point Walter. Adobe has never been the best at descriptive labels. I had whipped that post off quickly.
I had assumed Animation Best was part of the deprecated lot since it no longer showed up in 15.1, at least for us, but was still an option in 15.03.
I saw the listing of supported codecs past 15.1 on Adobe’s info page (still including Animation) and just assumed (like so much of their color space info) it was just wrong since Animation vanished from our options. Are you saying that through some voodoo we can have Animation Best back again, post 15.1?

[Walter Soyka]

[Steve Bentley] “I saw the listing of supported codecs past 15.1 on Adobe’s info page (still including Animation) and just assumed (like so much of their color space info) it was just wrong since Animation vanished from our options. Are you saying that through some voodoo we can have Animation Best back again, post 15.1?”

It should just be there. Maybe it’s possible you’d need to rebuild any Animation codec output modules you were using from scratch so that it internally refers to Adobe’s encoder?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Steve Bentley]

Keeping in the theme, Andrew or Walter I wonder if you could suggest a workflow.
Final output: ProRes444 compressed on a Mac.
Originating file from AE on Win7, in a 32bit comp and larger than normal size 5760×1080 (but still adhering to Cineform’s divide by 16 rule) If I could compress ProRes right from the PC I would but I don’t think there is a writable ProRes on the PC.

The catches: Mac is 10.6.8 so the current Cineform codec is not available (and I’ve searched for an older one – no luck)
The total running file is massive (running length is long) so I’d rather not render a bunch of EXRs (or any non-RLE still format )and send them over to the Mac, hence animation best and cineform being ideal size-wise. But the former of course has a limited color space and the latter has a codec issue on that age of Mac.
We’re not loving the Avid codec solution.

Is there another intermediate that we could choose that would be readable/recompressable by the Mac side?

Suggestions?

[Walter Soyka]

Going cross-platform, using Mac OS X 10.6.8, and avoiding Avid codecs does make this a little harder…

AfterCodecs can use ffmpeg to write unlicensed ProRes on a PC:
https://aescripts.com/aftercodecs/

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Steve Bentley]

Hey Thanks Walter, I didn’t realize there was a ProRes for FFMpeg. I’ll give that a whirl. That will allow us to cut out the middle man (er… middleMac?)

[Walter Soyka]

[Steve Bentley] “Hey Thanks Walter, I didn’t realize there was a ProRes for FFMpeg. I’ll give that a whirl. That will allow us to cut out the middle man (er… middleMac?)”

ffmpeg uses reverse-engineered ProRes, not official, Apple-licensed ProRes.

If you’re just using the Mac to write ProRes, there are a few other options that do use an official Apple ProRes encoder. In cost order:

Assimilate SCRATCH Play Pro (subscription)
https://www.assimilateinc.com/products/scratch-play-pro/

Blackmagic Design Fusion Pro (perpetual license)
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion/

Assimilate SCRATCH (either)
https://www.assimilateinc.com/products/

The Foundry NUKE (either)
https://www.foundry.com/products/nuke

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Steve Bentley]

I’d rather compress it on the PC. The issue is getting a codec format that is wide enough in its color space and small enough in size (like Cineform) that the PC can write and the Mac of that age can read and recompress to Prores. But if I can cut out the Mac platform altogether that speeds things up immensely.
I’ve been out of the Fusion world for years and didn’t realize BMD had bought it.

[Walter Soyka]

That’s what I’m saying — use one of those apps to compress to true Apple ProRes right on the PC, no Mac required.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Jan Vork]

Actually Quicktime Animation files can become very small, when used for the right purpose.
Since the format makes use of both run length encoding in frames (blocks of pixels of the same color) and in time (only the changing pixels are recorded in the file). It should not be used for video footage.

The interframe compression is done by specifying a ‘keyframe distance’ – this takes a full frame in every x frames, and start recording the changes from that frame.
In video footage, normally all frames are different and contain noise/grain, which makes the compression worthless, and will produce bigger files than necessary.

Adobe dropped the possibility for specifying keyframes earlier.

For me, it feels like a good old Apple vs Adobe feud. Apple drops Flash, Adobe drops Quicktime.
Both were nice formats. For Quicktime Animation/Lossless is no good alternative.

It’s quite harsh to have an archive of Quicktime Animation encoded files, which can no longer be imported in After Effects…